Why Giving Back To The Community Is A Real Estate Agent’s Best Marketing Strategy • Learning With A Lender • Joel Schaub

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Welcome to the March episode of Learn With A Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate!

In this episode Joel discusses why giving back to the community is one of the most important things you can do and how this helps you in building your brand and business. Next, Joel talks about the importance of partnerships and how good partnerships bring better results. Last, Joel talks about lending rates and what’s happening in the loan market at the moment.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at joel@rate.com and 773.654.2049.


D.J. Paris 0:00
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Okay, welcome to another episode of Keeping it real, the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Faris, I am your guide and host through the show. And today, once again, is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel shop from guaranteed rate. Now Joel is the vice president of lending at guaranteed rate, and he’s been doing loans at a high level since 2003. And he’s got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is he gives back part of his commission to the buyer on every transaction. Last year alone, Joel gave back over almost $300,000 in closing costs to buyers who worked with him and that puts Joe’s volume at the top 1/10 of 1% of all lenders nationwide. out of 400,000 loan officers in the country. Joel is currently ranked number 137. Last year to date, he closed over 535 transactions, his highest amount ever full for one year. With that was almost $200 million in loans. Already this year. Joel has closed 151 transactions for over 56 million. He’s actually going to break his record this year and last from last year. And if you’re looking to work with a loan officer, we could not more highly recommend Joel he’s the very best we’ve ever worked with. He actually helped me with my loan that just closed my transaction and he was amazing. I know lots of people that he’s helped as well. So if you’re looking to work with a great, great loan officer Joel is our highest recommendation, you can find him or reach him rather at his email address, which is Joel J oel@rate.com. Again, joel@rates.com. Or shoot him a text message or call him at 773-654-2049. Let’s say hello to the biggest Cubs fan. I know Joel Schaub welcome Joel,

Joel Schaub 2:34
a DJ, thanks so much for having me on. And all those numbers are great, but I really like coming back and just giving and sharing with the audience how they can grow to the next level as well. And so it’s really fun to take this time each and every single month. And you get to this level by giving. It’s not about what you can get, it’s what you can give. And that’s been the theme almost every time we’re on and I’m excited to go through some of that with you again, today.

D.J. Paris 3:00
Yeah, I agree. It’s one of those topics of giving that, you know, Joe and I were talking just before the, the the episodes starting and Joel’s like, hey, you know, do we have any? Should we come up with anything new and I always think fun. And there is always whenever there’s something new, we do talk about it. But I like the reinforcing the fundamentals. You know, it’s like, it’s always like, I always think of, you know, push ups like not the most fun thing to do every day. But a really good fundamental exercise that you can do kind of anywhere in everywhere to keep your body moving forward. And, and giving I think, is a similar engine to keep your business moving forward. Can you talk a little bit about what you’re doing on the giving side, you know, because you always are doing so many creative things that, you know, even for our listeners, of course, who are realtors, that they could implement a similar ideas into their own business.

Joel Schaub 3:46
I’m glad you brought that up. We’re gonna be doing push ups on the show today, right? That’s what we’re gonna be doing right? We’re gonna see. Maybe that’ll be next episode, for sure. But

D.J. Paris 3:55
next episode, you’d beat me

Joel Schaub 3:59
you’re in the gym way more than I am like, I know that for sure. But right now, the ideas that we’re been doing that really have had an impact are these giving on off type of events. So I’ve said it before. If you’re doing birthday cards, that’s great. And if you’re doing gifts on certain holidays, that’s great. But let’s avoid doing the Christmas gifts and the Hanukkah gifts and the New Year’s gifts. And let’s do stuff creative like Valentine’s Day, or we just did St. Patrick’s Day where we sent out gifts to our referral partners. And if I’m an agent right now, I’m looking at the next couple of calendars and seeing like Mother’s Day is coming up. And how cool would it be for you to even just send a handwritten card to all the dog moms, for example, just things that are like you don’t need to know if they have kids or not. Because sometimes you don’t know everything about your clients you should but in the times where maybe it’s Father’s Day and you could say you’re such a good dog daddy, right these types of things where you don’t have to I do the days where everybody’s, you know, you’re gonna get lost in the shuffle when you’re sending out cards or gifts on the big holidays. And you know that for sure.

D.J. Paris 5:10
Yeah, that’s, that’s absolutely, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve, I’ve always thought, you know, around the holidays, not only the December holidays, in particular, not only are you the busiest, or, you know, most of us are busy with all the different social events, you know, we’re trying to tie up the end of the year with work. And you know, we’re oftentimes traveling and you know, we get a handful of cards from lots of different services that we employ throughout the throughout the year. But we usually get the all those cards and gifts around the December holidays, which is not a bad thing. It’s a nice thing. But as Joel was saying, you know that your your sentiment could get lost in the shuffle. You know, I get about 10 cards from all the different services I use. But how many people send me a Valentine’s Day card? Well, one my girlfriend that’s about it. And so it’d be nice to receive things on off holidays, because it just stands out more, in a weird way, it might almost be seen as more thoughtful because it’s not expected.

Joel Schaub 6:05
The agents that I know are really growing their business are doing it through giving. So one of the books that a local agent here Daniel doll referred me to and I know you know her, she said, go read the Go Giver, and I love the book, The Go Giver, so it it’s on Audible as well. And it really just tells the story of how to live a good life and that most salesmen aren’t salesman or saleswoman at all, they’re connectors, and I’m not the best salesperson, I’ve just helped people find solutions. And then those people see that it’s a genuine giving from somebody that actually cares. And that’s how your business grows, that I don’t have like, a slick way of talking to somebody or like the right thing to say. And it’s literally just creating solutions and being there to give back. And the people that are really giving are the ones that are really growing. You see it all the time. The top salespeople aren’t the slickest folks. They’re just people genuinely trying to give back. So that’s what I encourage everybody that’s tuning in here to do is find genuine ways that you can go to your sphere and be that person that is seen as charitable giving back in their for their people, you’ll get more business for sure.

D.J. Paris 7:20
Yeah, I 100% agree I was actually talking to you’re talking about being in the gym. I was. I have a personal trainer, and she is an introvert. So she’s not your typical personal trainer who’s like yelling and screaming and getting you all excited. But she’s excellent. And I liked her so much. And she was saying, you know, I wish I was better at sales. So what do you mean this personal trainer, you have to be good at sales. And she says, Well, I meet with people, I do these, you know these evaluations, and then I don’t know how to close them and I go, don’t worry about that I go just be genuine, be nice. And I go, here’s an even better solution. Have them call me, I will tell them what it’s like to work with you. I want her to succeed. Because she’s really helped me in my in my business. And I know that’s not her personality is to be hey, let’s close the deal. And you know, she’s not salesy at all, but I want to help her. And I think that’s another thing that you do such a great job of is, is making sure that you have raving fans, you really go above and beyond in giving to your clients, and then they go out and tell everybody they know about you.

Joel Schaub 8:19
I’ve never closed anybody honestly, it’s all about the open, right? When people hear those kind of like closing like techniques, like you can hear it from a mile away. And this is a big decision, you’re buying a house, right? So people want to buy but nobody wants to be sold. Okay, they can tell from a mile away, like, knowledge, you know, there’s all these techniques and I, I’ve like looked at them in the past. And you could see him from a mile away like the takeaway clothes, or I don’t even know the names of them. But there’s so many types of sales techniques that don’t work. When you’re really dealing with people at a high level. That’s the trust business and you need to actually not close anybody, you need to be there and find the solution and be there to help them. So if you’re an agent right now, like looking up ways to like have closing techniques, change your business in a way where you’re actually the one asking and learning how you can solve the problems because that’s how the business is growing. That’s how you can get to people ask me left and right. Well, how do you get the How are you closing 50 transactions in a month? Like what? What’s your secret? There’s no secret. I work harder than most people. I’m up longer. I don’t get as much sleep. And I’m there for people. So I’m giving back. Yeah, I love that you say that about closing techniques, because a lot of times you’re just trying to provide the right solutions. So I’m glad you brought that up. Yeah, I

D.J. Paris 9:45
find that agents who have a background in customer service, whether they maybe they were in food service before or hospitality or just anything related to working specifically with customers and making sure they’re happy. tend to do really well as realtors, because it’s really the or in your case loan officers because it really is about just servicing the client and making sure that they are never lost, you know, in the process and maybe most importantly, you know, helping them when they get stuck or when they get scared, I know I was going through with my loan, it’s just, you know, this is the most expensive home that I had ever purchased. And it was terrifying. Just because I have my own fears around it. And I was so grateful to have you and other people that I reached out to to said, Am I making a terrible decision here? Is this a bad idea? Because I was worried I’d say your

Joel Schaub 10:36
homes are amazing, by the way. Thank you, in my hometown that buy a whole neighborhood we really did good with

D.J. Paris 10:43
it. It’s awesome. I am. Well, I am I am really grateful that I had people who were able to objectively look at my situation and say, Yes, DJ, this is a good decision. And I said, okay, good, because now I know, and I just, you know, I trust in other people. But I have a good team behind me. And I think maybe that’s a good segue for us to figure out how do you choose somebody, you know, who’s going to be a good loan officer? And I think, you know, for me, I’m kind of in the industry, and I’m in real estate, and I was really scared. And you think, Well, why should you be scared? Well, because it’s a lot of money. And I was freaked out. But I had people like Joel, who I said, you know, is this a good idea? And Joe was like, well, let’s run the numbers. And we ran it. And I went, Okay, I can do this, this makes sense. And I ended up not only, you know, us getting too close, but he helped me manage my emotions along the way, you and your team were excellent at that. And that was so it was so important. And I think oftentimes, as real estate professionals, we sort of forget what it’s like for the buyer, or the seller, and there’s just a lot of fear there. And a good team will help you alleviate some of those concerns.

Joel Schaub 11:47
You’re exactly right. So if you’re a real estate agent right now, and you know, the left and right that mortgage, people call you up and say send me your deals, what you really want is a real estate mortgage professional that is trying to help you. So it’s not what they can get from you. It’s what they can give you. So partner with somebody in your local community, somebody that you actually could sit down with and break bread and meet with socially distance, of course, right now with everything that’s going on, but you want a partner and good mortgage guys are more than willing to help you split marketing costs in a RESPA compliant way, be there on weekends for your open houses, or have staff ready to update pre approvals. Most of these banks have the same rates, I’ll let the cat out of the bag, like I don’t have the cheapest interest rate, like the rates of the rates, right? The market is out there. And honestly, most banks are about the same. Okay, so there’s no big secret. If the rate today is 2.875, I won’t have a rate of two and a half percent, right, the market controls that. And once you realize that you’re trying to work with somebody that will actually give back to you. So one of the recommendations I have right now, if you’re an agent, and there’s a couple of loan officers that are kind of in your circle, be point blank with them and ask them do you want to help me market find somebody that’s willing to put up their own money because right now I help agents left and right on a monthly basis for cold marketing activities where I’m spending at a RESPA compliant level 50% of what they’re doing for mailers, Zillow, and other types of activities, and half those loan officers put their money where their mouth is, and actually help you.

D.J. Paris 13:31
Yeah, it’s, it’s so it’s so important. And again, yeah, there, look, there’s always a lower rate somewhere by a few basis basis points. There’s always, you know, cheaper and better, but really, at the end of the day, consumers just want to be taken care of, most consumers are not going to worry about you know, who’s got the absolute cheapest rate, some may, but most just want to know that they’re being taken care of, and most are willing to even pay a little bit more if the rates a little bit higher, for even a better experience. I know I am. Because I was terrified during mine and I and I had a great team in place. And I was like, okay, and I got a great rate. I mean, Joel got me an amazing rate. But I wasn’t sitting there going, Well, gosh, this other bank could do it for you know, a four tenths of a basis point cheaper, it’s like, who cares? At the end of the day, I just want to make sure that this is going to get done. And we did have a slight hiccup at the very end not not on Joel side. But you know, there’s hiccups that happen at the very end of a closing that’s very common. And I was like I wasn’t worried about that part of it at all because your team was so on top of everything and, and it that that too was really helpful. Like we get all the way to the end. And then you know, some little issue comes up with the sellers or you know, whatever. And then I don’t have to worry about it because I’ve got a great attorney. I’ve got a great loan officer, and they’re taking care of everything and then I can just sit back and be relaxed and enjoy my new place. So it’s really, really important. I think what you just said was so powerful. So,

Joel Schaub 15:00
if you’re a buyer’s agent, and you’re submitting offers, and you have a pre approval letter from your trusted lender, that lender should be doing an extra thing, which is reaching out to the seller side, and explaining that an offer is coming in, that I know the file front the back, and that this file can close at a certain time, right, and making sure that you’re actually partnering with a mortgage professional that can underwrite it has the process and procedures down, versus just them going out in like it’s surgery. Right now, it’s not easy to get loans done, okay. And it’s not easy to get loans done every single time consistently. And it’s like eye surgery, you don’t look for the discount Groupon, right getting laser eye surgery, and some people do. But really, if you’re a real estate agent, you want a partner, somebody that’s going to be there Saturday night at 930 at night to update the letters. And that’s where you can go out and find the person in your community that’s really going to double down and help you and loan officers are not going to like me saying this, but agents go ask the loan officers to they want to contribute money on a marketing basis with you find the people that are really willing to step up and give. And those are the people that are really going to be your partners for the next year to five or 10.

D.J. Paris 16:15
Yeah, I think that is just so well set in and we should also mention for our listeners that you know, you and guaranteed rate are eligible to work in all 50 states too. So if you don’t have someone local, that you’re directly connected to, or you just want to explore to see what other loan officers offer, you know, of course, Joel and his team would be happy to talk to you to see if they can help, you know, with your clients and help you with your business and growing as well. Let’s um, let’s talk about rates though, just because rates are always on on, you know, the everyone’s mind right now, because there’s so incredibly low and they still continue to be low. So can you just give us a little update on what agents should know about rates currently,

Joel Schaub 16:54
over the last 60 days, we’ve seen the average market rates go up almost a half a percent. We knew that in December in January, all 30 year fixed rate loans. We’re starting with something in the twos right now the best rates are just above 3%. And it’s starting to get people a little bit scared, are they going to continue to go up? Or are they going to stay where they’re at? Or could they come back down? And I always say predicting where rates are going to go is like predicting the weather, you know, right? Yes, only a few people can do it. And only for a few number of days. But planning something out a month from now you just don’t know. What I would like to say is that over the last 16 years where I’ve been at the same company, if you could have a 30 year fixed rate in the threes, those are great rates, I wouldn’t lend my own money or you wouldn’t give a friend money for 30 years. And that’s what the banks are doing right now. They’ll say, Okay, today’s rate, on average is around 3.1 to five or maybe 3%. Okay, I don’t care where rates are gonna go in five years or 10 years, I’ll let you have that for 30 years. It’s crazy. It’s what’s That’s America. And that’s what those 30 year fixed rates are right now,

D.J. Paris 18:04
I remember from the early 2000s, there was interest only loans, which I imagine still exist in some capacity today, although probably not as popular as they used to be. And they were based on LIBOR. And you would get like a two year rate maybe. And then it would readjusted, it could go up 500 base, it could go up 5%. You know, within two years, and I remember the rates being really low, you’d make a short term bet. And you would just hope and pray that rates didn’t shoot up because if they did, you were kind of screwed, you’d have to refinance again. And now you can lock into a 30. year for like 3%. It’s incredible.

Joel Schaub 18:38
One of the strategies I will also tell you about is arms are coming back into favor and not the scary arms that you are talking about, yeah. Oh, 5209. These are all heavily regulated, you have yours at a fixed rate. And the flavors are typically five, seven or 10 years. And right now, if you’re out there and you have a good mortgage professional, ask them about the 10 year ARM, a 10 year ARM right now that’s a long time it’s a 30 year loan, where the rate is fixed for 10 years. Those are around 2.75 right now. So it’s a big drop compared to being above 3% for 30. And there’s an opportunity a lot of people are saying, well, that’s a long period of time, five years is too soon and seven years is a little scary. But a 10 year ARM, even after 10 years, the balance of the mortgage will be so low, that if the market did move, it made sense to take a rate in the twos. So those are coming back into favor and a lot of banks, it’s not just my company. So reach out to your local mortgage guy, have a conversation and try to find those partners. If you’re a real estate agent. The number one thing you can do right now is making sure somebody is going to take care of your deals because you’re doing all the work. Boy is it hard to get an offer accepted right now, right multiple offers like crazy. Every market that we’re in, we’re experiencing the fact that the seller looks at me the loan officer much more than that. They look at you or the buyer, they say, Who’s the buyer using for their loan? And can they close in 21 days without any appraisal and waiving of a lot of the contingencies. And having somebody that can do that will allow you not to submit offer after offer and just put offers in that are designed to win,

D.J. Paris 20:19
you absolutely have to have a pre approval letter for every single buyer that you’re working with. Because, you know, right now it’s so competitive, there’s so little inventory sellers are owning this, this market and buyers are owning it in a sense, too, because we, you know, buyers can purchase more than they ever could before because of rates. But the problem is increased buyer competition. So you’d need to stand apart. And you need to be able to submit that pre approval letter from a company to where the listing agent goes. I know I know those guys. They’re good. They get things closed, and they’re not screwing around. So that is so well said. And right now it’s I you know, I talked to top producers you do obviously, too, you work with a lot of top producers here in the Chicagoland area. And every one of them says, Oh my gosh, it’s great. If you have listings right now, because buyers are coming left and right. But it’s tough. If you’re just if you’re representing buyers, you have to really stand apart, you gotta submit offers, instantly, you got to hope that that you know you’re coming in at a good price. And having that pre approval letter really helps cut through.

Joel Schaub 21:21
I work with a lot of agents in Texas, California and Florida. And they’re seeing the exact same things, almost any state that you see right now, the sellers are in control. Even if you submit an offer that’s 10 grand above, if that client has any kind of thing shaky with the loan officer to the letter, you’re not getting that offer accepted. So making sure that when you have that loan officer that you’re partnering with, ask them, will they answer the phone? Because if you’re an agent, you know, damn, well, you’re calling the name on that pre approval letter to say, do you know about Jim and Susie? What can you tell me? Have they submitted their pay stubs, tax returns, and when the loan officer says who? What now hold on, you’re already dead in the water. So getting somebody that says I know what file you’re talking about, I actually got the pre approval for that property address done last night. Not only are they fully approved, as soon as you guys get a signed contract, we’re going to get that appraisal waived because that’s happening a lot now and having that conversation in a really intelligent way to the listing agent makes you the buyer’s agent stand out from all the other offers. And that’s why it’s so important to partner with a good mortgage professional, get that team together. And you’ll close more transactions. I guarantee you that.

D.J. Paris 22:34
Yeah, I pardon the pi and the guarantee fund. Because of course Joel’s with guaranteed rate. But he’s absolutely right. You know, the the idea is you just need a good team, you need a good attorney, you need a good inspector, you need a good, you know, loan officer. And now is the time right now to make sure you have those in place because they’re needed more now than ever, you know, the the pandemic, we weren’t sure what was going to happen with the real estate market when it first hit last year. I know at our company, we thought oh man, this might be our worst year ever. all Turned out that when things started to slowly return to normal, gosh, the real estate market went on fire. Obviously, you know that you had your best year ever last year, too. We did as well. And and now it’s so incredibly gangbusters that everyone needs to have everything perfectly lined up so that you can get deals closed because now it’s the the reverse problem is there’s so much business so much opportunity that it’s tough, just to get things accomplished, because everyone is so slammed. So you know partnering with with a loan officer who all loan officers are busy right now because there’s increased activity, but the ones that do get back to you and help you and take the time, even though they’re too busy to really speak to your clients directly and make sure they’re comfortable. And they have their anxiety, you know, alleviated based on what the loan officer says that’s really more important now than anything. And I know real estate agents, a lot of our listeners are frustrated right now, because they’re working with buyers are getting shut out deal after deal after deal. So we know it’s tough, but this is why it’s couldn’t be more important to have a great team. So, Joel, if anyone is listening, and I know you work with agents all over the country, but who’s looking to work with it with a new loan officer, somebody like yourself? What’s the best way they should reach out to you?

Joel Schaub 24:20
I actually answer my emails. Personally, I actually return phone calls and people have tested me on it. So you can email me, Joel JOE l@rate.com and say keepin it real podcast in the subject line. And I’ll just answer questions. If you want to know about the way I’ve market or how I’ve grown the business, or what you can do in your market. I’ll spend 15 or 20 minutes with you and just share how I’ve gotten to the level that I have and it’s no cost I’d like to help and yeah, it’s it wouldn’t be this learning with a lender episode if we didn’t talk about rates so we covered that. The big takeaway here is just partnerships and giving agents that I know that are really take To get to the next level and being really serious about growth, are finding their partnerships right now. And making sure that the people in their sphere, see them as being generous, giving back and finding ways to be that person that people come to because you are a giver and not a taker.

D.J. Paris 25:17
Yeah, I think for all of that’s so well said, if, if we, for all of our listeners who, you know, posts, just sold, you know, Facebook post, or and there’s nothing wrong with that those are great. You know, though, that’s branding, letting people know that you are closing deals. But make sure you’re also talking about how you’re contributing to instead of just, hey, here’s another deal, I closed another home I sold, make sure you’re also Joel does a great job of really making sure that his audience understands what he does in his business, not only to help his clients, but also how to give back to the community. I mean, it is it is important for people to know what you contribute, it’s, we know that that mission is never been more important to to the public, making sure that that you know, companies that we partner with, do give back do volunteer do donate time and money. And you know, your clients need to know that you’re part of that. And I know you know, we we do that at our company, we make sure that’s on our recruiting website, when we’re looking for agents, agents ask us all the time, how do you give back to your to the community? In fact, I just had a call just before Joelle. That was the number one question she had was, how do you give back to your community? She’s an agent thinking about joining us and I went, Oh, my gosh, that is such a great question. And so a lot of times agents aren’t going to ask or, you know, clients are going to ask that directly. So you need to make sure they know about it, and make sure that you can show that on social media, you know, here’s what I’m doing to contribute. Or maybe you’re raising money or awareness for a cause, you know, do anything you can to give back and, you know, obviously, your clientele will be probably more even appreciative of that and seeing that you just closed another home, which of course, you know, is nice as well.

Joel Schaub 27:01
You’re exactly right. And before we wrap up, there’s always those type of events that we can do and a little teaser for next month’s episode when I’m on right now we’re in the middle of March Madness, and I just created a campaign called merch madness. And it’s a merchandise giveaway where we’ve created branding. And if you’re an agent, and you’re still just doing transactions, you need to create the brand. Social media is where all of the eyes are right now. Even though I do billboards and TV commercials, most of the time when you’re driving in your car, you’re not looking at billboards, right, the passenger is looking at their phone, half the time the driver is looking at their phone, right. And so where are most of the eyes these days are on social media. And if you can create that brand, and it’s all about giving, people are going to recognize that and you’re going to continue to grow. So on next episode, we’re going to talk about what I did for March Madness, and the March Madness jewel Shah giveaway. And it’ll help you guys as agents figure out what you can do to grow your brand and your business.

D.J. Paris 28:01
And in between now and our next. Our next live with the lender series. Joel, they should check you out on Instagram, because Joel posts a lot of this stuff there. And Joel, could you give your Instagram handle to everyone?

Joel Schaub 28:13
Well, everyone knows I’m a big Cubs fan, you always tell everybody right up front. So Cubs fan mortgage man. And you’ll find me there. And there’s some really great things that are just about branding. So it’s not always about the number of transactions because I always like to say this. I have a really good mechanic and he does good marketing, but he doesn’t say I just had another oil change. I just got another muffler fixed. Right, right. In agents, we do that and it’s okay to do that. But you also have to have the personal side and the branding side. And that’s what we’re focusing on. So we’re going to be doing a lot more of that on the next episode, which is great. So a little teaser for what’s coming up.

D.J. Paris 28:50
Yeah, check Joel out on Instagram. So at Cubs fan mortgage man. And you can see how Joel does his branding and you’ll see a lot of giving along the way and a lot of testimonials too. That’s important. Get your testimonials. Joel does a great job of getting testimonials from his clients. I provided one of course I’m sure most of his clients do

Joel Schaub 29:11
it you I gotta go back and look for that. Let me see.

D.J. Paris 29:13
I did I did I submitted it to I think it was either Google or whatever. But I definitely wrote one. It’s there somewhere. But anyway, but these are important because you know obviously your clients want to see what other clients think about what your services so make sure that you’re telling people and showing them what you’re what you’re getting best feedback. Awesome. Well, we will see everyone on our next episode. We appreciate everyone for listening, watching and continuing to support our show, please tell a friend think of one other real estate professional that could benefit from hearing this great episode with Joel about giving and and how to choose a loan officer and contributing and send them a link to our show you can find they can send them right over to our website, keeping it real pod.com Or just have them pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real Elon hit that subscribe button, and that’ll help keep us growing. So Joel, thank you so much for being on the show once again and congrats on all the success although it’s certainly well earned. It feels weird to even say congrats because you earned every every part of it. But we were excited to continue to partner with you and then we will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, Joe.

Joel Schaub 30:21
This was really fun. Thanks for having me

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