Category: Top 1% Interviews

Landlording For Life podcast host Sean Morrissey just purchased his 39th multi-unit investment property – a 16 unit building he was able to acquire without help from investors. Aside from being a top producer, Sean has studied real estate investing for years and put his knowledge into practice. In our conversation Sean talks about why buy-and-hold investments are a prime focus and what brokers can do to get started in the world of real estate investing.

Sean Morrissey can be reached at seanrmorrissey@gmail.com and 630-869-5493.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:15
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the only podcast made by Chicago real estate brokers for Chicago real estate brokers. My name is DJ Paris, I am your host. And I wanted to make a few quick announcements before we get into our great interview coming up with a podcaster himself landlording for life host, Sean Morrissey. So a few quick announcements. First of all, thank you, again, for continuing to listen and support the show our numbers are continuing to improve, I think we’re up. I forget, I think about 60%, even over last month as far as number of listeners, which is very exciting to us. The other thing I want to mention, and this is easy for, for me to forget about because I do every episode, but we have new listeners that every single time we post an episode find out about the show for the first time. And I want you to know that we have all together if this is your first time listening or one of your first times listening that we have about 55 episodes already done. And I don’t want to lose sight of that. Because what we’re trying to do is not just continually put out new content, which of course we do a couple times a week. But we want to make sure that you know that what we’re trying to do is create a library of content. You know, the whole idea of this podcast was to get in front of these top 1% producers and say, What are you doing? How are you building your business. And when we’ve done that, we’re going to continue to do that. But don’t lose sight, you can go backward. I mean, we’ve not even been doing this podcast, I think not even eight months, and we already have 55 or 56 episodes. So go back listen to some of the older shows. They’re not that old. And they’re super relevant. And what we’re trying to do is build this library so that any broker who wants to learn how to grow their business can just start listening to some of these masters and of course, learn from them. So please go back. And listen. Also, please tell a friend, we have another new speaker that’s coming a monthly feature. I’ve been talking about it for a few weeks, but it’s finally happening. And it took a while while a master trainer is going to be doing a monthly show with us. And I won’t mention exactly where she’s from just yet one of the top training companies, maybe the top training company in the real estate world, so that’s very exciting. And she only works with top producers as well. So we’re gonna get her on the show and have her tell you what she’s telling top producers to do. So other than that, please keep supporting us again, tell every other realtor that you know if who’s interested in learning what top producers do Oh, one last thing we have been so we’re so grateful because we have been getting so many suggestions from our listeners of who to interview going forward. And I’m not kidding in this is not an exaggeration. We have at least 40 suggestions in our email right now that producer Jen is having to sift through and while we are so grateful and every time I did the intro to an episode I’d say send us your suggestions. I feel bad because we now have too many and we can’t even get to the ones that we have. So please do keep sending them in but realize we have a backlog now which is a good problem to have but still a problem and I don’t want anyone to feel what they wrote in and we weren’t able to get back to them or that we didn’t choose who they recommended we probably will choose them we just haven’t gotten to it yet. So if we haven’t replied back to you it’s only because we’re super busy but again how lucky are we that people are so wanting to hear those episodes you know in the future so be on the lookout for that so thank you for so suggestions but follow us on Facebook you can look us up keeping it real pod also our website keeping it real pod.com Okay, on to our interview with Sean Morrissey.

Okay, today on the show we have Sean Morrissey from Chicago land Realty Group partners where he is the managing broker and owner he has also shown has also been a landlord. for over 15 years he has been a real estate broker for 11 years and the owner of Chicagoland Realty Group partners for six years, where he specifically and individually has closed over 500 transactions, which is no small feat. Shawn has managed a portfolio of 200 plus properties. He himself owns 39 units in the western suburbs in the Chicagoland market, and is also a member of National Association of Residential Property managers and National Association of REALTORS Institute of real estate management while hosting designations recognized by these organizations. Shawn also hosts a weekly podcast called landlording for life if you can listen to landlording for life at landlording for life.com Welcome Shawn to the show.

Sean Morrissey 4:51
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

D.J. Paris 4:53
I’m so excited we were just talking off before we started recording about how this is so great for me because I feel like I will, I won’t have to work as hard because you’re a podcaster you already know how to be interesting. So there’s no pressure. But I’m gonna basically take a backseat and just kind of let you drive on this one. That sounds good. Well, tell us a little bit about your journey to real estate. How’d you get started? And how’d you get to where you are now?

Sean Morrissey 5:21
Well, yeah, so I guess, in some respects, the dramatic story is that, you know, back in, it was really 2001. My dad took me out to dinner one night, and he was like, Shawn, I want to, you know, teach you kind of the basics of using investment, real estate to shelter, taxable income, right? So, you know, we had a discussion about it, it was over my head at the time didn’t quite understand, you know, what the point was, but after reading a couple books, and, you know, probably like so many are listeners reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which really helps you sure, you know, wrap your mind around a certain type of mindset. I bought my first rental property back in 2003. And from there, bought a few more, decided to get my real estate license in late 2006, hung it with a Keller Williams brokerage in St. Charles Illinois area in early 2007. And really started to learn the ropes of agency at the time in which the market crashed, which is pretty much the worst time right?

D.J. Paris 6:21
To start getting into residential. Yeah,

Sean Morrissey 6:25
but I’ll tell you what, it ended up being a blessing in disguise, because ultimately, you know, folks that weren’t able to sell their home or, you know, ultimately bring funds to the closing table because they were underwater. Really, my my residential rental experience, and being part of some different real estate investment organizations gave me the benefit to really kind of take a different take on market, we rented a lot of homes, really, from 2007 to 2010, with the occasional short sale, but that was kind of my niche was the rental market. And that ultimately led to starting to manage properties in 2010. By Yeah,

D.J. Paris 7:05
yeah, that’s, that’s I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you, as you say, that seems like a very natural transition. Because I know at our firm, we have hundreds of brokers, and it’s not uncommon for a broker to all of a sudden, who is working either with investors or or even just owners that are running out their properties to all of a sudden go, Hey, maybe I should start doing the management on this. So I imagine that happened with you as well.

Sean Morrissey 7:27
Yeah, that’s that’s exactly what happened. And you know, like, you know, probably so many of your listeners have seen as well. You know, some brokerages love property management, some not so much. And and really what it comes down to is liability and making sure you have the proper Eno insurance in place. So, you know, by October 2011, you know, it just didn’t make sense for me to maintain Property Management at this at this brokerage. So I ultimately opened up my own shop in October 2011. And, you know, that kind of led to all sorts of opportunities when it comes to property management and building my investment portfolio.

D.J. Paris 8:03
Yeah, and, you know, we should really point out the different hats that you do wear and because I think these are a lot of really challenging hats, but you seem to do it. Well. Number one, you’re you’re you’re a managing broker owner. So you run, you know, a traditional firm, number two, you have a property management arm of the firm, is your managing units for for investors. And number three, you’re also an investor yourself, right? So there’s Gosh, and there’s and you’re also managing this agents, right. So it’s, there’s a lot going on. And I just I applaud you for being able to do all of that. Well, thanks. Yeah, let’s talk about your podcast to tell us about landlording for life.

Sean Morrissey 8:44
Yeah, so really, the the purpose behind landlording for life is to is to target you know, entry, real estate investors and landlords that may have a few units under their belt, and provide them with some tools they can use either on a day to day basis, or take some of the stories from, you know, local landlords or those, you know, really throughout the country, I suppose, at this point that can help them and, you know, streamlining their processes or improving their processes. So, yeah, it tends to be a fun project for me and educational for most folks, at least, from the feedback I’ve received thus far. So fun stuff. Yeah, it’s

D.J. Paris 9:19
no, it’s great. And I think too, I’ve always thought you know, even just getting landlords together so they can vent about all their all the different challenges associated with with property management is, you know, it’d be big for some pretty interesting stories. Yeah, does. We do a with our own brokers here where like once a month, we have this called investor roundtable, and it’s just all the brokers that do either work with investors or their investors themselves, and that tends to be property management stuff as well. And they’ll just come in and sit down together and talk about you know, some of the some of the challenges and also opportunities along the way. Tell us a little bit about you know, the investment side of Your business sort of, you know, you talked about how you got started with your father introducing you to Kiyosaki and the sort of sheltering some some income tax wise, and also the residual income that you’re getting from the buy and hold side. Were you always a buy and hold person or investor rather? Or were you flipping at one point or doing both?

Sean Morrissey 10:19
Yeah, always a buy and hold investor. You know, I’m, you know, it’s not it’s not sexy, right? I mean, you’re basically buying a property, ideally, using, you know, what would be called the burr method, right, buy rehab, refinance, and repeat. And that’s, that’s really all there is to it is, you know, buy something that that needs value added to it, ultimately rent it out. So you’ve got a spread there, and what you’re making some money, and then, you know, refinance that property, so you can take out the proceeds to buy another property and do it again. And that’s, that’s really my philosophy, you know, as I’ve evolved over the years, and, you know, really have become a podcast junkie, over the course of time, you know, I’ve been one that ultimately tends to respect, multifamily is the way to go in terms of long term buy and hold and generating monthly income. But even as an agent, and you know, we kind of mentioned this before the show, but you know, I tend to be the kind of individual that leads with being a real estate investor first, and then follow it up with being an agent. Second, because at the end of the day, you know, my philosophy tends to be that real estate agencies more of a job, right, you’re creating that passive income as an investor really tends to be, you know, the way where I tend to find, you know, my own personal sense of financial freedom over the course of time. So that’s, you know, ultimately kind of where I’m, I’m trying to head to long term in terms of in terms of goals, I suppose.

D.J. Paris 11:48
Yeah. And just to unpack that a little for listeners, what I what I think in Shawn can correct me if I’m, if I miss missing, what I think he’s saying is, hey, as a as a realtor, doing traditional realtor stuff, working with clients, buyers and sellers, you’re, you’re pretty much transactional. So you know, you’re closing deals, you’re getting paid, and then it’s on to the on to the next paycheck. But what you’re not getting is is residual income. And like finance, the financial advising industry, about 15 years ago saw that sort of being a stockbroker getting paid a commission on on a stock trade was was, of course transactional, but much more lucrative to start taking a percentage, charging a percentage of, you know, someone’s assets under management. And so what Sean’s done very, very, sort of very well, but also sort of impressively is created his own residual income, buy these buy and hold investments.

Sean Morrissey 12:45
Yeah, and what’s what’s funny is, you know, eight years ago, when we got the property management going, we’re in essence, a third party property manager. Now, what we’re working, what we’re working to evolve into, frankly, because part of it well, let me let me take a step back, what are the struggle with being a third party property manager is, you know, you’re you’re stuck in the middle between a tenant that wants everything fixed right away, right. And a landlord, that tends to be, you know, for lack of a better word, too cheap to want to fix anything. So you’re always getting pulled one way or the other in regards to either party. So in the long run, what you want to do in my opinion, is if you can eliminate that landlord piece of things, right, by buying your own inventory, and making your own decisions as your own landlord, it makes your life a heck of a lot easier. And, you know, in my case, fortunately, I’ve already managed a big enough portfolio where I know how to scale that property management, which, which, you know, frankly, is the trickiest part, you’ve got to have systems in place if you want to, if you want to scale your inventory. So doing that is, you know, either going to take your time, or ultimately hire a third property property manager that’s already doing it. But that’s, you know, ultimately what I’m working towards, so that we basically have our own in house property management for our own inventory. And, you know, it’ll create that residual income over time. Yeah, and

D.J. Paris 14:02
this way, the only owner you’re fighting with is yourself. So you know, let’s, let’s challenges with that. So, tell us about it. And you know, and I don’t know that you have a goal in place, specifically for like, number of units you want to own and manage that or cell phone, you know, self manage, I guess, is that is there a number in place as far as how many you buy on an annual basis? Or just number of units by a certain time? Or do you not really think that way?

Sean Morrissey 14:31
Well, it’s funny, I’m actually sitting right in front of my goal board right now at my desk. And what I had written on our, you know, as a 2018 goal is to get up to 50 units. I think, personally, we could probably get up to 60 units by the end of the year. And then ultimately, you know, long term let’s just say over the next three to five years, I think if we were at 100 units that would cover not only all of our operational expense, but would also put me in a position and and my staff in a position where we can operate pretty smoothly. And again, getting back to the whole third party property management stuff. Now, I’m not gonna throw it under the bus too much. But sure, you know, at the end of the day, you know what, like I mentioned, you’ve got the the landlord tenant struggles and trying to keep both parties happy. But at the same time, too, at any time, depending on how your management agreement is written. But in any time, that landlord can say, hey, I want to pick up a new property manager, and you’re fired. So that’s another challenge. So when you own your own inventory, right, at the end of the day, no one can ever fire you, unless you stop paying the bank for that. Right. So Siena, it’s just, it’s one of those things where, you know, I think for anybody, it takes time, but that’s it’s kind of where we’re headed. And you know, where my thought process is, in regards to where I want to take my real estate business, not clearly towards the investment side, but more of a safe, self sustainability type of setting.

D.J. Paris 15:53
Ya know, that makes all the sense in the world. One, I wanted to get into this particular victory that you just had in the past month or so where you picked up a 16 unit building, and you were looking to get financing, maybe even bring in some partners. And then, you know, you were able to say, you know, actually I can do this all myself. Do you mind telling us that story?

Sean Morrissey 16:15
Yeah, absolutely. So it’s, it’s kind of a fun story. Because, really, because this property was off market.

D.J. Paris 16:23
Yeah, yeah, let’s, let’s talk about I’m sorry, I don’t mean to give away any of your secret sauce. So feel free to reveal as much or as little as you’d like, tell us how you locate or rather how you got interest from this off market property? How did you get how did you capture their attention?

Sean Morrissey 16:38
Oh, absolutely. I’m happy to share. So yeah, ultimately, last fall, we started off really a postcard campaign. And, you know, it’s, it’s fairly simple. It’s a, you know, decent looking postcard not too big, just kind of standard size, what is that four by six. And it basically just says, We want to buy your multifamily building, right. And then we had a targeted list of folks in our local area, we mailed them, I want to say it was every other week for about three months. And in early October, I got a call from this gentleman, and he said, Hey, listen, I’m doing a 1031 exchange, I’m trying to buy some retail space in the city of Chicago, and I need to get this this building sold. So you know, I met him out there took a look at the building, he gave me the numbers and reviewed them. And my initial intent was to have a group of investors in California purchase that building. Sure, is you may have noticed, you know, California real estate prices are so overinflated that they can’t make money in rental real estate out there. So for lack of a better word, they come to the Midwest, or these particular gentlemen did in order to, to make a buck. So, you know, brought the project to them, they ultimately got cold feet, I ended up bringing it to another set of investors, which was which is actually I thought the perfect type, it was a former corporate executive for, you know, a major apartment chain, who did a lot of due diligence when it came to that apartment, purchasing new buildings. So he headed up the group and it was a team of attorneys, and they just couldn’t pull the trigger fast enough, they didn’t have their paperwork together, they weren’t ready to go. So you know, when push came to shove based on the motivations of the seller, because he had to meet the time frame, it’s a 1031 exchange, which really gave, you know us or myself as the buyer and opportunity to say, Hey, listen, he’s got to meet his timeframe or his deals not going to come together. So he’ll give me a good deal on price. And he’ll give me you know, credits to make some improvements to the building. You know, I ultimately was like, I’m gonna find a way to make this happen. And, you know, fortunately, it all came together, we closed about a month ago. And after, you know, some back and forth, you know, the building ultimately came back at like a 10.5% cap rate. I was able, yeah, so great numbers. And you know, if you’re familiar with cap rates in the Chicagoland area, and then, you know, boy, we ended up getting a $31,000 credit at closing, just for some cosmetic repairs. So, you know, pretty exciting stuff. And, you know, it was all thanks to the fact that there was a 1031 exchange that was involved. So you know, for those folks that are investors out there, targeting folks that are looking at doing a 1031 exchange in this fantastic market where everybody’s making money, you may be able to find an opportunity there. It’s just it’s just targeting those 1031 investors that No, I haven’t quite found a perfect opportunity to say, Hey, this is where I find them. But you know, it might be just building a relationship with a local intermediary, you know, a title company, something of that nature.

D.J. Paris 19:36
Yeah, it’s so interesting. I know at the owner of our company, he’s been a real estate investor for a long time similar to suit to yourself with respect to how the types of buildings he picks up, as well as how he picks them up. He does a lot of postcard. He makes a lot of phone calls. He sees a for rent sign. He picks up the phone and calls and says can I talk to the owner by any chance? Yeah, hey, would you ever be interested in settling right so That’s exactly what you did, except I wanted to point out that and whether somebody’s in a more traditional realtor who’s just, you know, working their sphere of influence to try to get buyers and sellers or somebody who’s looking for off market properties as an investor, or on behalf of an investor looking for off market properties, you know, sending one postcard likely isn’t going to be super successful. I like that you did every other week for months. And then you know, repetition, you know, they say is the mother of skill and you once in a while, get those kinds of phone calls and how fortunate to and I also don’t want to gloss over in case this was missed by the listeners, like Sean was able to do this entirely himself without investors, which is an incredible feat. So congrats on that, and that that brings you up to what about 4040 units right now all together,

Sean Morrissey 20:46
yet, yet, technically 39. But we’re going to hit up a sheriff sale next week, and hopefully pick up our 40th. So fingers crossed.

D.J. Paris 20:54
Now I know that you are obviously a very like a voracious reader, and you absorb a lot of information, going all the way back to you know, reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad. But tell us Do you have recommendations, book recommendations or course recommendations for brokers that are interested in learning about sort of the residual side of real estate and you know, this case, maybe buy and hold investing or working with investors?

Sean Morrissey 21:20
I’ll tell you what, there was a gentleman we just recently interviewed on our own podcast by the name of Paul Moore, and he wrote a book called The perfect investment. And really what it’s all stemming down to, is why multifamily apartment investing tends to be the perfect investment. And he goes into his own story and ultimately goes into some details in regards to, you know, multifamily versus other assets. But I would probably say that would be a good read for most folks. Another book that I’ve come to love a lot over the last 12 months, which really isn’t real estate related, but is wealth building related. It’s by a gentleman by the name of Garrett Gunderson out of Salt Lake City, and the books called What would the Rockefellers do? And it’s a great book and understanding generational wealth. Really, what he does is he compares the Rockefellers to the Vanderbilts. And what went wrong with the Vanderbilts from one generation to the next. And that one’s that one’s that one solid.

D.J. Paris 22:17
That No, that’s great. And also tell us I know you had you had mentioned this off before, we will actually with with our producer, about an eviction story that you thought was was worth sharing. Can you tell us a little bit about the Bolingbrook eviction?

Sean Morrissey 22:33
Yes. So this goes back about five years ago, but in terms of a story that’s fairly amusing, in our office only had five evictions in like six years, right. So we always did a good job of screening folks. But what happened in this case, is we found a tenant for like a $2,500 rental property right in Bolingbrook. And the landlord who lived in Philadelphia happened to be in that weekend, and the tenant was you know, getting ready to move in and you know, landlord was at the house and the tenant said well, I’ve got your deposit and rent right here in the form of a personal check. And naturally the landlord took that check against our advice deposit of that check after he gave the tenant the keys to the house. And sure enough that check bounced and unfortunately, Weld County in Weld County it took it took some months to get them out of there but when we finally did get them out of there, they were literally moving out the day that the sheriff showed up the Will County Sheriff Sheriff knocks on the door you know, gets inside walks through, you know, gives the tenants time to get items in there, their giant U haul and as the tenants are pulling out of the property and mind you these were these were bad people like there was nothing that we liked about these individuals. They knew what they were doing all along and ripping this landlord off of course Anyways, long story short you halls back and out of the driveway, it hits the sheriff’s car. No and the sheriff naturally goes ballistic on these two people. And we’re sitting there and you know, softly chuckling because we’re just like man karma karma came full circle that day for these folks and you know, make a long story short, it was an eviction made memorable because the the tenant hit the sheriff’s car on the way out the door and it’s it’s one of those it’ll stay engraved in my mind for some years.

D.J. Paris 24:25
That’s yeah, that’s great. What were were they up to any nefarious activity inside the unit over the or just looking for a free place to stay for a while

Sean Morrissey 24:33
looking for a free place to stay and And ironically, you know, about four years later, they applied on another another one of our rental properties and that seemed vicinity and I was like, boy, I remember this name. I can’t remember why and we’re gonna have to a little bit of digging, I’m like, oh, it’s these people. And you know, once you make an act like that, and it hits your credit report, you get the judgment against them and the whole bit you’re, you’re kind of up a creek for Some years so, you know, don’t don’t, don’t not pay your rent on purpose, it’s going to come back to bite you in the long run.

D.J. Paris 25:10
It’s a little it’s a, it’s at best a, a short term solution to a much, much bigger problem, you can get a couple of months of three runs. Yeah, you know, might might work for a few funds, but thankfully, I mean, you know, it seems like you guys don’t, with you, your Property Management site, and also your own investments, you know, I haven’t had to deal with too much of that. So that’s, that’s that’s, do you know, do you specifically look as an investor? Do you specifically look for multi units that are more on the inexpensive side for rent? or moderate or higher end? What what’s, what’s your sort of niche?

Sean Morrissey 25:47
Now? That’s, that’s a great question. So you know, the way the way you kind of break down the multifamily community is, you know, either a Class B Class C class, or D, right. And, you know, clearly D is like crime ridden area you want to stay out of a is like developer comes into a neighborhood and builds brand new property. B is something you know, built in the 80s, or 90s. C tends to be something built, let’s say, in the 60s, or 70s. So we tend to focus on investment properties that will survive any market, right, in order to in order to sustain cashflow over time. So really, what we’re looking at is C class and potentially B, because over time, a class becomes B, and B becomes C, and you hope C doesn’t become D, you know, that all depends on the neighborhood and all that all that jazz. So having said all that, we tend to focus on BNC, because they don’t build those anymore, and they tend to be affordable, and they tend to survive any market because folks need a place to live. So that tends to be the the investment philosophy of these, this this day and age.

D.J. Paris 26:51
Yeah, that’s, that’s really helpful and useful. And again, if you know Shawn hosts a weekly podcast, where he’s talking about, specifically property management, but also I imagine you talk about investment, the investment side as well, it’s because they’re they’re so intertwined. And his podcast is landlording for life, and you can visit them there on iTunes. And of course, everywhere else podcasts are served up, but landlording for life.com. You can stream episodes directly from there, and they’re also on SoundCloud and pretty much everywhere. And also when it when a plug Shawn’s website for his brokerage firm, which is Chicago hyphen, Realty hyphen, group.com. You can also stream episodes for the podcast there and see everything that Shawn is up to with respect to his brokerage firm. And, Shawn, if so, if there are any, you know, I know you work with buyers, sellers, also investors. If there is anyone out there that really wants to work with you and your company, what’s what’s sort of the best way for them to reach out to you?

Sean Morrissey 27:48
Well, they can certainly give us a call, phone number would be 630-423-6027. Give us a call at that number. Or you can always shoot me an email. It’s basically my name is Sean S E A N, R for Richard and then more si M as in Mary, o r r i s sey@gmail.com.

D.J. Paris 28:07
And one last question I wanted to ask you because you do so many different things in real estate. What would you recommend to traditional realtors who are working again transactionally working with buyers and sellers? As far as what would you encourage them to do? As far as starting to learn about the investment side or property management side?

Sean Morrissey 28:28
Well, I would certainly say You know, if you haven’t read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, you got to start there. Because that’ll create a mindset that once you read it through thoroughly, there’s no going back and your your mind will be changed. From there. I’d say Get involved in your local RIA clubs be at your real estate investment associations and you know, they’re in there in every neighborhood this day and age, right, every major metropolitan area for sure. Yes. And, you know, certainly you can reach out to me through our website, if you have any questions. Also, you know, I’ve I’ve become a podcast junkie, because there’s just so much information out there, you know, not only on your fine podcast, but you know, there’s so many different real estate investment podcasts where you can get different ideas this day and age, I would certainly say that’s a good way to go, especially when you’re driving clients around in cars, or you’re waiting on OMA to to show up at that next appointment. Certainly have a podcast going and feed your mind. Agreed.

D.J. Paris 29:19
Well, Shawn, this has been so we’re so gracious and grateful that you’ve been on the show. And by the way, this is not Sean’s first. Obviously he is a podcaster. He has also been on a podcast as a guest before so we really appreciate you coming on our show. And yeah, you know, again, go to landlording for life.com. To listen to his podcast, go to Chicago hyphen Realty hyphen, group.com. To learn about the brokerage side of what Shawn does, and, you know, get in touch with him. He is he’s definitely an expert in a lot of things real estate. So that’s very, very impressive to us and and also to our listeners. So Sean, thank you so much for being on the show.

Sean Morrissey 29:57
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on.

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Mike Cuevas isn’t afraid to tell you that your marketing sucks. For years Mike has written the most successful blog on real estate marketing and branding for brokers – Real Estate Marketing Dude. Aside from being a top producer himself, Mike has devoted years to studying branding and bringing those strategies directly to the real estate broker community. Recently Mike launched Attracktor, an all-in-one marketing and branding system to help you get more clients. In our conversation Mike gives the specific mindset a broker needs to manifest more clients and deals. He also dives into social marketing strategies that produce results.

Read Mike Cuevas’s blog Real Estate Marketing Dude and learn about Attracktor, his branding service for brokers.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:15
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcast made by Chicago real estate brokers for Chicago real estate brokers. My name is DJ Paris, I am your host through the show. And today I’m really excited because we just sat down with Mike Cuevas, also known as the real estate marketing dude, and owner of a tractor, a marketing program for brokers to help you get more referrals. And Mike is the real deal. So this was a really exciting show for us and a good guest to have on the show, because he has spent years and years aside from being a top producer, learning all the tricks of the trade of how to increase the number of deals you do through referrals. So we’re really excited to have Mike here in just a few moments, and also excited to be over the hump of 50 episodes. So congrats to us. But really, it’s congratulations to you the listeners. So please continue to tell every broker you know about this show. Again, our intention here, if this is your first time listening, is to bring top producers, usually we only interview the top 1% of all brokers in Chicago, and there are 42,000 realtors, so we’re only looking at really the top 420 or so, and asking them to be on the show to tell other brokers, how they built their business, what they do differently so that you can learn from their success. And again, we’re grateful that it seems to be resonating with people. And we’re gonna keep making episodes. And we also, every episode, I say, Hey, if you know anyone that should be on the show, tell us well, I’m going to tell you not to do that right at this exact moment only because it is not that we don’t want your recommendations. Of course we do. But we’re backlogged by 20 people’s we’ve had 20 people reach out to us saying, I want to be on the show. And so we’re in the process of booking them. So for the next few months, we’re probably set but definitely still send us your recommendations. Just don’t be offended. If it takes us a couple of months to get to that person we will and we’re excited that people are so wanting to hear from other people. So thanks again for continuing to support our show. Find us on Facebook, just do a search for keeping it real pod are keeping a real podcast you’ll see us there we post every one of our episodes directly there. And also on our website which you can stream every single episode keeping it real pod.com You can even sign up to get an email every time we publish a new episode. Of course, we’re always on iTunes, Google Play Stitcher, anywhere podcasts are served. So let’s just get to it. Mike Cuevas coming up after the break.

Okay, today on the show, we have Mike Cuevas, who is also known as the real estate marketing dude, he has a podcast, he’s written books. He has this product called attractor, which we’re going to talk about which is a real estate marketing platform for brokers. He’s also been a top producer. He was in the Chicagoland area for a very long time. We’re gonna listen to that story. And now he is out west. But he has gone all in on the real estate marketing and training business. And he’s awesome. If you’ve ever checked out real estate marketing do.com If you haven’t, you need to because it’s just got amazing content. His podcast is great. His videos are great. He’s been a top producer. And anyway, we’re just gonna turn it over to him because we’re excited to have him. So welcome to the show.

Mike Cuevas 3:43
What’s up keeping it real? How you guys doing?

D.J. Paris 3:47
Well, we’re glad to have you. I’ve been a fan of Mike’s content for a long time. And we’re we’re similar in a way where, you know, Mike has a podcast where he does a lot of this actually, can you tell us a little bit about your podcast?

Mike Cuevas 3:59
Yeah, it’s a podcast is just called a real estate marketing dude. We do a lot of just various interviews, sort of like pop up interviews, nothing’s really scripted or anything and we just talked about more like outside the box, call it marketing ideas but more on the attraction and we try to stay far away from the door knocking and cold calling and all of that type of content because there is not a shortage of gurus they’ll be happy to talk about that kind of stuff. So we’re doing a little bit attraction based marketing is what we really really really like.

D.J. Paris 4:31
Yeah, and let’s go through your history. Tell us about how you got started in real estate and your journey from from sort of that first inkling I know you you’ve stopped you took a class to finish up your college degree down it was it ISU or Southern Illinois Salukis SIU Baby, tell us tell us tell us how you got into real estate.

Mike Cuevas 4:51
So I got into real estate was the last college elective was about 330 in the morning and we were completely blacked out drunk and I needed three hours to graduate In this one of my buddies I remember, seen him in years, but his name was Teddy fabulous. We used to call him. He’s like, Yo, dude, you got to, you know, take the real estate class man and take the real estate class and little I know, ended up being my, my entire career and that 330 In the morning decision. So that’s how it works. How many people actually use their degrees? Right? Yeah, not me. A lot of people don’t. And fortunately, it’s, uh, well, we won’t get into the college debate on this show. But yeah, just know, so many people don’t use their degrees. And it’s sad. But yeah, it just fell into my lap. Just some it’s only thing I’ve ever done since college, and I just sort of figured it out. Trial and error, hustle, hustle, hustle.

D.J. Paris 5:42
And yeah, and you’ve been a broker, obviously, you’ve been a brokerage owner. You’ve managed people. You’ve done all facets of the business, from rentals to sales to investments to short sales, kind of run the gamut.

Mike Cuevas 5:57
Yeah, we have it’s what’s really interesting is, we have I’ve had a team of 29 agents. At one point, I’ve had a team of four agents. At one point, I had my own brokerage at one point I have as an independent agent, one point, I had a small just one partner at one point, sort of done, it all seen all different types of micro market cycles. Remember, in 2006, and seven, that was the pre construction game. So I remember I positioned myself as the new construction guy, and we were selling out developments, you know, in a weekend floor plans back in those days. But then I was a short sale guy. And then before that, I was shy town, Mike and all that. And the point is, is that there’s always a market in, in the real estate, business, there’s always a niche to be in. But every time I had spurts in my career, it was because I was in a niche, not a general real estate agent. I think that’s more relevant for anybody today, because all of us just say, oh, man, real estate, great, who fucking cares? You know, unless you really dial in your niche and whom you are, I don’t think you really resonate with everyone because everybody has a frickin real estate license. But at least in San Diego they do is 37,000. Realtors here, but probably only about 8000 That actually practice?

D.J. Paris 7:07
Yeah, we’ve got we’ve got 42,000 here in Chicago, and I bet you probably about the same amount actually produce as yours. So maybe 8000 or so.

Mike Cuevas 7:17
No, that’s that makes sense that the one numbers have never changed in the in the whole business folks is that 10% is, you know, 10% of agents still do 90% of the business that has been consistent regardless of the technology and trends and anything. And just because some people take their job seriously, I think, I don’t think this is a part time career. I mean, you could, but I don’t think you really do much good for the clients, you represent part time. There’s a lot of things happening and you really do got to know what you’re doing. It’s a lot different than just opening and closing the door, especially in today’s market.

D.J. Paris 7:48
So how did you transition from producing yourself to teaching and training?

Mike Cuevas 7:55
Well, good question. I always have I don’t ever stop learning like I’m reading reading, reading reading and the teaching and training parts are just came naturally because of the you know, there’s since my career I’ll say 2002 I was 22 years old when I got licensed. I’ve seen about three to maybe four different markets. The first one was in 2006 2005 2003 That was the boom days those are the good old days where you literally would trip over a sale I mean if you cannot make over 100 grand in those years you’re fucking retarded it was really really there people were buying new construction I mean if you looked on the news everyone’s like real estate real estate real estate and appreciates it was like no one reminds me of it was like the cryptocurrency the latest fad of that real estate. But then once the crash happened so during that time I had to learn about all of that stuff so I was always the one sort of taking the ownership I’m learning the systems and I believe in leveraging your time in our business versus through what you know and through knowledge than just trying to be in run be involved in running the day to day aspects. I was always focused on the bigger picture in order to do that meant I had to show others how to do my job for me so I didn’t have to do it. I like watching the Chicago Bears on Sundays. I don’t like sitting open houses. So I was always about leverage short sale days or no we’re no no other difference. I remember short sales is like 2007 I rented an office and a Keller Williams and River North right next to an attorney that had a bunch of short sales and he’s like, I’m like what the fuck is a short sale? And before I know this dude referred me seven files and I’m like I’m still like what the fuck is a short sale I got two point I got 2.1 million and pending sales and I don’t even know if the hell they are right. Little did I know the attorney was fucking retarded. He had no idea what he was doing and I’m like fuck this. I started traveling the country with all the Guru’s and I started just go into event after event after event. And that’s the difference is like I will spend 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of dollars on coaching and Masterminds on edge occasion on products and services. There’s not a frickin Booker’s product or service I haven’t bought if you guys want one recently for 50 percents, I have them all. But the point is, is that you have to put yourself outside there in that comfort zone. And the only reason we knew shit we took on short sales because no one else wanted to take the time to learn about the freakin problem. I would say about early on in those days 60 70% of our files came from other realtors, you know, we’re making money hand over fist because other agents were too lazy to learn how to do the exact same thing. So we took advantage of it. Then short sales turned into a brokerage I had to learn how to do brokers and then the one year leader, you have to lead your troops, you know, you have to lead your team. So it sort of just came through that evolution. recently. It’s been you know, the last five years I’ve been really involved in personal branding as I see this business come last last people don’t give a shit what brokerage you work for they care about you write 100. So I think the entire the whole personal branding wave is huge. I think lead generation as a whole is going to slowly be dying. Because people get it now they know when they opt in on an online forum that they’re getting call by 40 Fucking people, right? You know, I mean,

D.J. Paris 11:12
well, I always I always tell people that you know, and not that this is any revolutionary thought or a great insight. But like Zillow is a marketing company and they are really what there’s a lead gen company. That’s how they make their money. And it makes sense. And they’re going to sell that lead to three or four people and you know, now you’re competing with three or four people.

Mike Cuevas 11:32
Yeah, now those in the in the game too. We I was funny because I just saw speaking to Zillow, friggin elephant in the room. I just saw a post I wrote on Facebook, someone just tagged me in it. It was it was about a year and a half ago about what Zillow was actually going to be doing, right. And we’re like they’re going to take on the post that says specifically, they’re going to weed out the low pain monthly users. They’re going to start they’re going to they’re going to go in and focus on 5000 plus a month type users and then they’re going to leverage those users and send them back business called a brokerage call. You’re not but what’s the difference? It’s the same concept they’re going to feed and that’s why they’re buying houses. No, they’re just buying the houses to give those leads to the listing agents. Those deals are going to work and it’s sorry, you can’t you can’t fault them for it. But it’s a problem that you know, we gave we created on our own fault. And with that agents have to be more creative because there’s so many other solutions out there. So you have to be creative. You have to do more than just put a listing on the MLS and pop aside in the yard if your listing agent because honestly, I would just do that with Redfin, if that’s all your marketing plan is

D.J. Paris 12:42
absolutely no question. And Redfin does a lot of things really well. You know, there what brokers get very worried about Redfin, and they shouldn’t be worried is because Redfin is cheaper than they are, and is probably as good of a customer experiences I’ve ever seen. It doesn’t mean the broker can’t duplicate that experience. But boy, they’ve got a lot of things done, right. You’re right.

Mike Cuevas 13:05
If you don’t mind, let’s chat on. This is a really hot topic right now. Yeah, let’s share with what’s coming what’s going on here in California, because it’s on the West Coast. And it hasn’t hit the Midwest yet. But I’ll show you guys what’s going to be coming and I would give it the next six to 18 months, there’ll be in your market two. Out here. There’s a company they started in LA, since I moved out here and call it into July, August. They weren’t in the San Diego market yet. Now they are in the San Diego market. So they’ve made it an hour and a half south. From the LA market. It’s a company called Purple bricks. Purple bricks is a full service, flat fee brokers 3700 bucks. Wow. And they are they have more money than all of us combined. And what they’re doing is they’re plugging the airwaves on radio and television like you cannot I drove here this morning, I heard two purple brick commercials and the meaning and what they’re saying is they’re like, real misery. When you hire an agent, they don’t earn their commission. Basically, they’re throwing Realtors under the bus on how big of a waste of money it is to pay 567 percent commission right now, the reason why that’s a big deal is because when you start swaying public opinion like that, it’s very hard to come back. Right. You know, and they because they have the, you know, the pockets to flood the airwaves with all of these shows. There’s I mean, it’s a question being asked on these listing presentations. I’m working with some of the top agents in these offices. And they’re being asked Hey, will you do a flat fee or brokerages buyer’s agents are you know, meet people open house Hey, my agents going to give me a 1% rebate are you gonna do that? And now we’re losing our mojo and our leverage. So it’s extremely big. It’s a it’s a big issue. And I guarantee you guys will see purple bricks and about within a two year timeframe. They’ll be in that marketplace. And you’re gonna have to come up with a way to fight back and it’s not so much fight competition is good, right? makes us get better. Yeah, I don’t I think I think competence greats the concept of America if you don’t like it go to fucking Venezuela. But the whole concept is, is that competition forces us to do better things. And I’m telling you guys right now, the real estate industry is under massive attack. And if you don’t think people are out there trying to squeeze your Commission’s they are and they will and it’s going to happen. The question is, is how do you adapt to that? And I want to leave it with this. So do you have? Do you get your hair cut at a special place? I do. Do you always go to that special place? Yep. So do you have long hair? No, but I have a lot of hair. You got a lot of hair, okay, so you have a place you go to that probably does your hair. It’s not certain way. You’re like, Dude, that’s not my point. On my let’s do on my own and the other and I barely have any hair, like I have the worst haircut ever. And there’s not much I can do with it, my hair is thinning out. And sometimes I decide to go to a higher end place versus go to Sport Clips. And honestly, I’ll get the same haircut. Right, the higher end place shaves up my neck, and they have a different level of service that’s like I get a little massage, right? And it’s no different, like people will pay more for something that they fear they feel is earned or justified. Yes. Right. And there’s only lack of these less expensive, expensive options only infiltrate the marketplace when lack of value is present. And that’s just like an extreme lack of value in the real estate industry. So it’s superduper important, I don’t think that real estate agents are gonna go away, I do think that they’re gonna get squeezed. And I think that we’re gonna have to do more to earn our commissions because of the lesson.

D.J. Paris 16:41
And I think the good news with with the squeezing in a lot of the squeezing is too that a lot of the information is more readily available to the public. They don’t need the broker. You know, I always tell brokers are and again, I I know that not everyone would agree with this. But you know, your clients don’t need you to help them find a home to buy. Like they can do that on their own. You know, they have access to Zillow, Redfin all over the, you know, the MLS is distributed everywhere, so they can find it, they can find a home and buy it. So if they’re going to choose you, you better have a real good reason. Now a buyer obviously isn’t paying you directly, although you could argue they’re sort of paying you. But certainly in for a seller, you better be able to explain Hey, Redfin will do it for 1%. Why are you charging? You know, 3%? Or two and a half percent? Why are you worth a percent and a half more? And if you don’t have a good answer to that, then you’re done?

Mike Cuevas 17:29
Yeah. And the answer, if you’re caught, if you’re caught like a deer in the headlights, you need to work on your value prop. Absolutely. Like right now, if you don’t know how to answer that question, like, I can answer that question in two seconds. And it’d be like, do you really care? Do you care more about what I make? Or what I sell your house? For? First? Answer. Sure. And secondly, I would just say like, you know, this is what you get when you get the bass if you don’t think let’s say the house is worth, let’s say the difference in spread is 1.5%. And commission and let’s say $500,000. House. So what does that $6.70 500 bucks? Yep. So the question isn’t $7,500 The question is, Mr. Seller, do you really think my involvement in the transaction won’t net you? $7,500 more, right. And that’s what the that’s how you battle that. It’s really simple. But if you don’t have that, I tell these, I tell you justice all the time. It’s like, we sell confidence. Yes, you know, we sell we sell that people, you know, are coming to us to make so that they can make a better decision for their family. And when the confidence lacks, and that instant, will I believe the seller makes up their mind right there. Justin, how that objection can be answered?

D.J. Paris 18:39
Well, I know. I know, when I bought my first home, the condo here in Chicago, the the the the most valuable thing my realtor said to me was why we walked in and I saw it was like kind of mid construction. It wasn’t quite ready. And I had to sort of use my imagination to make it all look right. And then I went, I think this is the place he goes, You have to put it this was like on a Saturday he was you have to put it off for it on Monday or it’ll be gone. And I wouldn’t have known that. And I was like, Really, I can’t think about longer. He’s like, you cannot think about that longer. Somebody else will take that. And he was a good friend of mine. He wasn’t saying it to close the sale. He was he was giving me unbelievably good advice. And yeah, sure enough, there were two other offers. I got the place but there were two other offers right after right. So you know, I always think, you know, people come to you for advice, they come to you to solve problems. They don’t necessarily come for you to be able to give them access to the MLS although that that you do that too.

Mike Cuevas 19:31
But yeah, exactly. Exactly. People, you got to do more than the average in the status quo and, and trust me folks, your broker isn’t there isn’t going to help you figure this out. That’s 96% of consumers chose the agent over the brand they’re affiliated with, which means only 4% said hey, I’m gonna work with this agent because they work at ABC Realty, I can guarantee you that that 4% is in the superduper luxury market that point one to 5% of us actually working

D.J. Paris 19:58
right yeah, you know, is We have 600 brokers at our firm and as cool as it would be for me to say, oh my gosh, our firm name is so nobody cares. They just care about the individual.

Mike Cuevas 20:08
But who cares? That’s the individual. And that that has changed though. Since I got licensed I remember. Gosh, what was the first office? I was with big office? It was like 2000 to 2003. Floor time was still kicking. Wow. You know, I remember and I used to work at Acadia get stray who’s no longer in Chicago now. They’re WorkSource. Yeah, that was a one over on Clark Street and Linkin Park. Oh, sure. And I remember, they used to not let us even put our cell phone number. It’s actually the reason why I left that company is that they didn’t let us put our cell phone numbers on our signs. And I was just like, dude, like, last year, 10% of buyers found their agent from their sign from a sign. That’s why I wanted my frickin cell phone number on the sign. I didn’t want why I’m calling the office. Yeah, of course. I don’t want some nitwit just got licensed, answering questions about my property. But that was because I used to generate floor calls for this. But yeah, that’s totally changed. And I remember even at that time, people I had you had to be with a bigger brokerage. Back then it was it was a difference. It really was made a difference. People would be like, Oh, so you work at Kindig and stray or you look at that. And I was always like, dude, these people don’t do anything for me. What rights off am I doing here? Other than the camaraderie and the culture, that was really what I want a stick that stuck around for sure.

D.J. Paris 21:28
Let’s talk about a tractor because this is this is Mike’s flagship service. It’s awesome. Tell us about it.

Mike Cuevas 21:35
So we had a tractor we started working out about four years ago, driving through my car was a cold, freaking freezing cold day, snowing out and I call my partner up and I’m like, Dude, I had this idea. So the idea ended up turning into like an all in one type of solution. We’re going to be we’re just about ready to finally start releasing this. But there’s two versions of what attractor is. Our primary market are brokerages independent brokerages. And what it is, it’s a full all in one. So we have a marketing company built within our built inside of our software offerings. So we literally put a marketing dude in each office, talking about video editing services, WordPress websites, a full done for you solution of virtually every aspect with marketing support, but it’s also a transaction management platform. So we believe in two things, right? attractor does one thing really well from the marketing side. And that is what we call database marketing. Yes, it keeps your brand at the forefront so that you aren’t forgotten about

D.J. Paris 22:41
it. I want to pause my for a second because this is really, really important. One of Mike’s big sort of tenants that he over and over and over again tries to relate to brokers is that your database will forget about you if you do not keep your name in front of them do not assume like Mike has said, Hey, how many times have you gone on Facebook and seen that one of your friends bought a home? And they didn’t call you and it’s not because they don’t like you? And it’s not even because they didn’t want to work with you. It’s that they forgot you are a broker.

Mike Cuevas 23:08
Yeah, don’t take it personally. And it’s not it’s not their job to remember what you do for a living. It’s right. It’s your job that consistently consistently stay in front of them. But the challenge has always been how do that without shoving boring real estate content down their throats? Right? People don’t want any more of your frickin Oh, turn back the clock emails. I wrote an edge shut away.

D.J. Paris 23:28
I wrote an article once that said nobody wants to read your newsletter. Yeah.

Mike Cuevas 23:33
So like when we’re attract, it really just allows you to create, you know, media around your brand. And it’s no different than how BestBuy markets their business. What we do is we set up a direct mail campaign that’s automated through a tractor. It’ll basically farm your relationships, and the content on our campaigns are all pre done for you. And it’s really simple. It’s just there. It’s toilet humor. None of it is really real estate related. None of it’s supposed to close anybody. It’s just remaining relevant. We have a video email component in there. It’s very similar to like a bom bom sure if you will. Yep. And same thing we farm relationships. But with entertaining type content, like Valentine’s Day, videos, yeah, fun pipe stuff, just stuff that actually build your brand isn’t necessarily real estate related. And then the third component of it. That’s really exciting is the video we have video editing services and all of that and, you know, keeping consistency with your database and social media through storytelling, not advertising. There’s a major difference in how you can tell your story on a daily basis. Yeah, I

D.J. Paris 24:38
agree. I always say brokers make a huge mistake when all they ever do is post on Facebook a hey, here’s my new listing. Check it out. Like okay, fine. I guess that’s maybe that’s better than nothing, maybe. But like, again, no, nobody really cares. How about putting some content that people actually care about or that are interested in

Mike Cuevas 24:57
it? Let’s paint a picture out for someone. I’ll give you guys a good That just happened a few weeks ago here. So same thing we got this agent here. His name’s Billy. Billy does Billy is a traditional like Tom Ferry guy right where he’s your cold call cold call prospect prospects prospect. And yeah, those things still work. If you throw enough shit at something of course it’s going to work unless you’re just again retarded. Now what Billy did I’m like Billy, quit advertising and start storytelling. Yeah. So what he started doing and what he did is I’m a big fan of long form posts on Facebook. Yeah. Long Form posts is like when you just write it like a story, like a couple paragraphs. And if you guys don’t believe me, how many of those have you read in the last week? And I know all of you are like, Yeah, I did read that. So exactly. Sure you’re find yourself reading them, which is why you should be creating them because people will follow that story. Long story short, it’s not just listed. It’s more of like, this homeowner is trying to go back to Mexico and they have to, they have to sell this house before they do it. Right. So for whatever the reason is, it’s never just sold. Its I just helped this 85 year old homeowner sell their house for $4,700.66 higher than what their Zestimate set, right? Here’s how. Yep, and all we’re doing is just mimicking HGTV. Guys, this isn’t rocket science. If HGTV has a giant channel and network that already proved the concept. Why the hell are we trying to recreate it? Follow it, mimic it just put in your own way. So now on his personal page, so he generated for referrals just from doing a storytelling post versus the straight up you know, classified ad come get it is listed. And it just because people read the story and the related to it, it’s really that simple.

D.J. Paris 26:43
Yeah. And all of a sudden, it makes that broker a human being to who? Yeah. Awesome, awesome advice. What, what else are brokers not doing? You have any other suggestions for social media or just marketing in general?

Mike Cuevas 26:58
I think there’s two things happening right now. And Inman News wrote an article about this. I talked about it a lot on my podcast, my blog and whatnot. And this is in 2015, Inman News came out with an article this is before it actually happened. They’re like, there’s three threats to the real estate industry. One is a poor consumer experience. Two was two was entry by non industry companies. Right? And then three was not our I think, the less expensive as for me, it was just two of them. Here’s the point. It’s exactly right. Zillow came out with a study last year, and I think it was like 20% of a sudden, like 18 to 20% of people who use an agent wish they would have just done it on their own right now, that’s a major industry related problem. And lack of value is what people are bitching about. So the sad part is that you don’t see Nard doing anything about any of this. They’re just sort of sitting on the sidelines collecting their dues, because they’re stuck in a predicament, I think, you know, how do you weed the industry out? Because the truth is, is that we’re killing ourselves, because of the low barrier of entry and all the other things around it. Now, what I’m getting at is the consumer experience is freaking everything. And the consumer experience is what we are selling. It’s all we have left. It’s no different than you getting that haircut. Right? We’re just talking about you go there for that experience. Yep. You’re not going there. Because you’re trying to save money. And it’s that experience that people are after, which is why it is such a key key key key component. And Experience is everything from the level of service that you provide to how you make people feel.

D.J. Paris 28:38
No question and I’ll tell you about about the haircut. The reason why I spend a premium and a sizable premium if that where I could go to you know, a cheaper place is my my stylist is amazing. And she’s been amazing. From day one, she exceeds expectation. She’s great. And I also don’t want to have to look for another person, she exceeds my expectation. So there is no reason I pay a bit of a premium to do it. I tipper on top of that, it I am happy to do that, because I never have to think about that again. And you’re so right that if your buyers and sellers have that same experience, they will never go anywhere else.

Mike Cuevas 29:15
Yep. You’re and they won’t. It’s exactly why building the brand is so important when you build a brand that people are connected to, emotionally personally. Every other alternative option is less important in their minds, right? Like you’re in your right people don’t want it you don’t want to go out and search for new hairdressers. How long is that going to really take you I don’t want to go search for a new realtor. I want to just know that my realtor has their back and they’re earning their fees but when I’m getting all these less expensive options I’m starting to second guess that the more and the more powerful I’m connected to that Realtors brand unless I second

D.J. Paris 29:50
guessed that I believe I believe that’s almost always the case. I think you’re absolutely right and and so part of what Mike teaches is is how to do this right and so his tractors,

Mike Cuevas 30:01
tractor. So the front end of it is on the marketing side, it’s a full CRM, we have a bunch of marketing services in there, it’s really simple. It’s just keep your name in front of your database, so you’re not forgotten. The other half of it is transaction management, enhancing the consumer experience. So it’s everything from full transparency where there’s a client facing login and our portal to a brokerage, managing all of their agents and transactions inside of it. So it’s a it’s the first all in one transaction management and CRM combined. But we’re taking it to a different level with it is that when we bring on a new brokerage, we’re not looking at them as a client, we’re looking at them as an affiliate partner. Sure. So we know that those brokerages are all being squeezed by their agents. And we know that the brokerage model of today is your customer service department for realtors, the realtors are your clients and not the actual buyers and sellers.

D.J. Paris 30:52
We say that at our firm all the time. I’m on the support team. And I say our we’re all licensed, but we don’t work with the public. We work our our brokers, our clients, no question.

Mike Cuevas 31:01
So when we when we affiliate with basically, yeah, it’s a CRM is a transaction management. But when we affiliate with an office, we put our whole marketing company inside of there so that all of the value added services that we can get or give. The brokers now do that, as you know, the brokerages are able to share that with their agents. Now, the way we look at it is their agents are gonna go buy this stuff somewhere, right? Right, they’re gonna go buy websites, somewhere, they’re gonna go buy Facebook ads, services, that where they’re gonna go buy video editing service somewhere. So we’re like, let’s just keep it in house and let’s affiliate with you. So when I say affiliate, I mean that we are an income stream for brokerages not an expense, right? And we affiliate with on basic level of services that we offer. And the brokerage has two options, you can pass your agents the discount, or you can, you know, take it as an income stream so that you have the income to either hire your own marketing dude in office or something along those lines, if that makes sense. Yeah, makes perfect sense. We’re just rejuvenating. We don’t want to just be a software company, we want to be a little bit more than that. We want to actually provide the same level of support that a national franchise would to any of their users and our franchisees,

D.J. Paris 32:10
and I would think you should be able to exceed what most of the franchisees franchises provide their franchisees because as you’ve seen out marketplace, it’s not all that impressive in a lot of ways.

Mike Cuevas 32:21
Yeah, this is the first time it’s 57 or 56% of agents are now with independent brokerages. Sure, that’s nationwide. And yeah, you’re right, because everything is so local now that the franchise doesn’t really hold much bearing. I don’t believe much anymore, because what are they really offering support? Other than taking fees here and there?

D.J. Paris 32:43
Yeah, and perhaps good training, but if you’ve already been trained, then you know, what do you what do you need that you know, some of those What Why are you paying 30 to 50%? Well, probably not 50% anymore, but some people are, but certainly even 30 to 40 percents a lot. All right. Well, you guys, everyone who’s listening needs to start following Mike and learn about attractor which is attractor with a K so attract and then the K to Rs ATT RS

Mike Cuevas 33:09
at t r a c k t o r.com. There’s a free course on my website that sort of gives you guys a if you want, there’s a go to real estate marketing do.com. And under the training button, you can sign up for a free course that really shows you what personal branding is, how attraction versus chasing. And the truth is, you should probably be doing both. But there’s a whole thing that outline how it works and all that other stuff if you guys are interested.

D.J. Paris 33:38
Well and Mike not only is the owner and founder of both real estate marketing dude and attractor but he is using the same techniques and strategies on real estate marketing dude. So when you go there and also follow me on Facebook as well. But real estate marketing dude, that watch his videos, watch how he read his content, you will see exactly he is practicing what he preaches. And he’s had a tremendous amount of success in the broker community here in Chicago. Everyone knows Mike because of this website because of his passion. His videos are amazing. And you know, obviously he’s he’s he knows what he’s talking about. But so get get hooked on this stuff because it really is that and his podcasts. Listen to that, too. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Mike. Well, if anyone we’ve already let’s give the website one more time, there’s real estate marketing do.com where you can watch my videos, you can read articles, you can listen to his podcast, which is also available in iTunes and everywhere else which is real estate marketing dude. And then attractor with a K is where you can learn about his all in one marketing solution and CRM. And we’re very excited to have you on the show. So thanks so much.

Mike Cuevas 34:44
Thank you for having me. It was very great to speak with you today. So alright, but up I like it.

D.J. Paris 34:49
Alright, thanks, Mike. Thanks, guys.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

Adam Baxa is in his fourth year as a broker and he’s already become a top producer for Coldwell Banker and has built a team of six. Prior to becoming a real estate broker, Adam was a police officer for Illinois. He talks about the transition into this industry, how he built his business so rapidly, and how social media has driven his success.

Adam Baxa can be reached at 630-234-4472 and adam@thebaxagroup.com

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:15
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real, the only podcast made by Chicago real estate brokers for Chicago real estate brokers. My name is DJ Paris, I am your host, and guide through the show. And this is our 51st episode. So I wanted to thank, as I usually do the listeners for continuing to support us, please follow us on Facebook, which you can find us by just searching for keeping it real, or it’s keeping it real pod. And also our website which you can listen to every episode we’ve ever done, you can send us suggestions of who we should be talking to, or even ways to make the show better, which is keeping it real pod.com. And also please tell a friend any other realtors that you know that you think would be benefit from hearing what top producers are doing to help grow their business, please share that information. I wanted to give you guys an update. We are really excited this is being scheduled as the currently and we reached out to one of the top training companies in the in the country. And these are they have master trainers who train realtors and the realtors. They work with these master trainers, our top one percenters. So we had our listener who had written in some time ago and said, Gosh, you know so many of the people you interview have these trainers, I would love to know what the trainers are telling top one percenters Well, we reached out directly to the training company, and they are thrilled. So once a month, we are going to have a master trainer, I won’t yet announced the training company. But I will be doing that very shortly. So not only are you going to hear from top producers, you’re going to hear from the people that train those top producers and support them and coach them. So we could not be more excited. And again, that’s an idea from a listener and we have 1000s of them. So I’m sure you guys have 1000s of ideas. And if you send those to us, there’s a very good chance we will put them into practice. And we have a few other things surprises that are coming along in the next month or two. So again, thanks for listening. Thanks for continuing to listen telling a friend and we have a great interview with Adam baxa coming up right now.

Okay, today on the show, we have Adam baxa of Coldwell Banker and his own group, the baxa group, Adam is focuses or rather works in Yorkville, Illinois, which he has been a resident of since he was a very young child, and he has specialized out in the western suburbs. Prior to being a real estate broker, Adam was a an officer, a police officer, and he has switched careers. So I definitely want to talk about the difference between law enforcement and real estate and, and sort of how that transition happened. And Adam has is a top producer also has a really robust team he’s built I think there’s what is there six, five or six people on this team?

Adam Baxa 3:16
I’ve technically including myself, we’re at six right now.

D.J. Paris 3:19
Unbelievable. Good, good for you. So Adam, welcome to the show. We’re really grateful that you’re that you, you’re on here.

Adam Baxa 3:25
Hey, thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

D.J. Paris 3:27
You’re You’re very welcome. And so tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get involved in real estate?

Adam Baxa 3:33
Really, with real estate, it was something where, like you said, I used to be a police officer, I actually got injured back in 2008. After a couple years of surgeries, and rehab wasn’t able to go back to work. I always like to joke and say that, you know, I stayed at home with the kids for about four or five years while my wife was traveling for work when she wouldn’t travel. Travel, when she’s not traveling, she works from the home office, and then just got to the point where Hey, she said, You got to go do something and basically kicked me out of the house because I was not sure. But you know, looking for something to do. always had an interest in it. We went through a couple personal transactions, good experiences with our agents, then there was always you know, that was kind of, really during the heart of the downturn. We had a good experience, made, made a little bit of money in terms of an investment wise. Just always enjoyed the search the hunt, and kind of getting out there and even some of the competitiveness of it even just as a client at that point in time. And like I said, when she kicked me out and said you gotta go do something. It was like, hey, why not?

D.J. Paris 4:50
Yeah, that’s That’s very true. So how long? How long have you been a realtor? What’s the number of years at this point?

Adam Baxa 4:56
I got my license in. I believe it was Bill. November of 2014. So

D.J. Paris 5:03
okay, I want to pause you just for a quick second and talk about how impressive this is. Because it’s only been, you know, what, four years or less than four years. And not only is Adam become a top producer, he has built a team of six. That is, and when I, you know, on the show, and I apologize for interrupting Adam, but we interviewed top producers, and it’s all we do. I don’t think we’ve interviewed anybody who has been able to do that so quickly. So congratulations to you. That’s really amazing.

Adam Baxa 5:33
Thank you. Thanks. So yeah, November of 2014, I got my license. So really, what are we just really truly entering the third year? Yeah, really? That’s right, or in between the third and fourth year of that. And kind of made that transition relatively easily. It was one of those things, it was kind of baptism by fire. I have a managing broker, great ownership with Coldwell Banker, the Real Estate Group. And you know, at that time, it was just kind of, I weren’t running full speed, and I was either gonna fall on my face or be successful.

D.J. Paris 6:18
Yeah, it’s it is it is so interesting. I was just I have an episode that’s coming out in the next week or two. And I entered and I interviewed a woman named Karen, who is at Keller Williams, and she’s actually she’s a broker, but she doesn’t produce. She’s in charge of like, 800 of their brokers in the western suburbs. So not actually probably some of the Keller Williams offices out your way, maybe Naperville or wherever. Anyway, so I asked her, one of the questions I asked her was, well, gosh, you have 800 brokers that you work, work with what separates the top producers from the top producers and she seems really funny. And she in case you haven’t, wouldn’t have listened to the episode by now. She She just yelled out, they treat it like a business. And, you know, I think obviously you are treating it like a business. Can you talk about your first year? I mean, you’ve only had three, three and a half years so far not even? What was it like in your first year? Did you come in with with clients ready to go? Did you hustle? I’m always fascinated by by top producers like first year because it tends to be tough for everyone. But I don’t know what what how yours was

Adam Baxa 7:25
my my first full year if you really take Okay, so I started November, but even just moving forward till January, I think my first closing was in February that year.

D.J. Paris 7:35
Which by the way, that’s pretty quick. That’s impressive.

Adam Baxa 7:38
Well, I kind of lucked out on that one, we own a rental property. And my tenant at a time who had been a long term tenant was getting married, and they were getting ready to move. So it’s kind of like, hey, well, I can extend your lease month to month, we can look for houses kind of go there. So it was kind of a nice little setup, where sure, you know, kind of built that first client and in reality, but then moving forward, a lot of it really was social media usage, trying marketing that way, using different lead generation sources, which is difficult. And I believe, you know, it’s probably difficult for some people or a lot of people because in this business, you’re throwing money out there hoping to make money and nothing’s a guarantee, or, you know, what we kind of we like, though, joke around about that we’d like to work hard and play hard. And, you know, we’d like to gamble occasionally hit the boat. And that’s kind of what throwing some of this money out there marketing wise was, it’s okay, it’s a gamble. We have it. Let’s try it and see where it goes. Well, you know, well, on the backside, still trying to work my sphere and everything else like that.

D.J. Paris 8:45
Sure. Well, you don’t let I would love to do a deeper dive into the lead the purchasing leads, because, you know, I know if I’m not a producing broker per se. So I know that if but if I were if I were to start that I wouldn’t pretty sure I would invest. You know, Zillow, Trulia realtor.com, somebody, because I, I just don’t have a million people lined up ready to ready to buy and sell homes. And also, I suspect many brokers don’t work their leads that effectively internet leads, like you were saying are different animal. But I think, you know, for people who are starting out and even people down further out into their career, they still continue to buy them. But I think it’s a great opportunity to, to potentially, you know, close some deals more quickly. Do you find that with so when it comes when it came to internet leads? When did you find that? There was a lot of competition that you know, you were often up against other realtors or was it was it usually you were the only one talking to those people?

Adam Baxa 9:45
early on? Yeah, definitely up against the competition. Really getting started in the business. It was really hard for me to get a lead and be like, Hey, I’m getting on the phone. I’m going to call them right away. I felt like at that point I tried to put myself in their shoes and you I don’t want to be pestering that. And I’m sure you know. So I’d wait 20 minutes, half hour, or whatever the case may be, by that time they

D.J. Paris 10:08
move on, which, by the way, they tell you Yeah, they tell you not to do that. But maybe it worked for you.

Adam Baxa 10:12
Actually, at that point, it really didn’t. And so early, early on with the internet leads, it was kind of almost like a failure. And so finally, one day, I got one said, you know, forget it, I’m just gonna call them right away. Right, got the individual on the phone ended up, you know, probably two months later, we close, close, not on the house, they came in on but another one. And, you know, that’s when I was like, Okay, I just need to kind of suck it up and not worry about. If they’re reaching out about this, they want somebody to call, they don’t want me to wait, well,

D.J. Paris 10:44
well, that and the fear, I think is really very logical and very normal. Because, you know, I know, because we have, we have new brokers who are new to the business who joined our firm to, and they’re one of their biggest concerns, and it’s everyone’s concern, when they’re new is like, I don’t know enough. I don’t know what if they asked me questions, I don’t have the answer. And, and, you know, I’m just inexperienced, I don’t know everything yet. And so I definitely could appreciate you know, that hesitation. But, anyway, so I want to talk a little bit more about social media, too, because I know that that’s been really successful for you. So can you talk a little bit about how you approach social media, because I’m sorry, I’m just going to preface it by saying what I’ve seen. And gosh, we have hundreds of Realtors at my at our firm. And I tend to be pretty critical of brokers social media, because I find that oftentimes, it’s I don’t know that it’s done that effectively. And I think there’s some people that do it really, really well, like, obviously, you do. And I’d love to hear a little bit more about how you approach it. Yeah,

Adam Baxa 11:47
I’m really a big focus of our social media is Facebook, learning to kind of branch off into some of those other videos. But Facebook has been very successful, basically, from the beginning, getting into the business, and then transitioning into my professional page and whatnot. And really, it’s, it’s not just showing everybody houses, it’s whether it’s community activities, it’s trying to put a spin on my personality, and putting it out there to keep people engaged. If we’re just sure, if we’re just solely just, hey, here’s my new list. And here’s my new list. And here’s my new list, right? People are gonna get bored with that they’re going to unfollow it on like it, right? Oh, they’re not going to engage. The one thing we’ve learned, really, especially over the last year and a half, community type events, different things, different interesting articles about different communities, things like that, outside of real estate, really grabs a large engagement, and following. And that’s where you can really start seeing some of our numbers of people that are interacting with particular posts really grow. And that that’s been the successful part of it. And from that, as it’s grown, the likes and our pages growing, I’ve gotten numerous clients, whether it’s listing or by clients that, you know, will call me and say, Hey, we’ve been following your page for two years. You know, don’t list the house, this or that. And a big part of it, too, is is letting him letting these people letting calm potential clients, you know, everybody else get to know you, your personality and who you are.

D.J. Paris 13:33
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And I think I think you brought up a good point that I, I’ve always said is, you know, just saying, hey, check out my new listing. You know, it’s there’s nothing wrong with doing that, I guess. But I always say just assume nobody really cares that much. But if you give, I mean, it’s just again, nothing wrong with doing it. I just think like you were saying, What if I sent them content that they actually might utilize that also says more about you as a person to write. So you talked about community events. I was looking up i We interviewed somebody, I believe I believe is Rachel Houseman, but I could be wrong. But anyway, it was a broker in the northwest suburbs. I think it was Buffalo Grove, if I remember correctly. And one of the way she built her social media presence. She did this two years ago, it took about two years, like you were saying people following you. And what she did is she created a community page for I forget what summer but I think it was. So it was like the Buffalo Grove what’s going on in Buffalo Grove like Facebook page. And it really didn’t have anything to do with real estate. It literally it actually was for moms it was specific to like events for mothers in this area. And over time, she grew it to a few 1000 followers. And just people by default over time are like, Hey, you’re the admin on that page. Oh, you’re a realtor. Oh, that’s cool, though. I need help. And she’s like that’s been her number one source of Aside from her existing clients referring business. She said that’s been my number one source. It’s because she provides this awesome content. You know, and Facebook is such a perfect way to do that. So I imagine you you are constantly sharing events out in your neck of the woods and yeah, kind of thing.

Adam Baxa 15:08
Yeah, absolutely. We’re doing different things like that, you know, obviously, trying to keep, you know, keep any conservative, political oriented, that kind of junk officer just thought to me, you know, not looking to start any wars on Facebook or, or anything like that. And I think one thing out here that’s helped me, you know, I’m not saying I’m one to, when I first started, especially being further out, like, we are just less than Naperville. At the time, when I started, it didn’t seem like there was a lot of agents utilizing Facebook. So sure, or any social media at that time. And even to the point where when I first started, I had agents tell me that I was crazy. For using Facebook or social media and their comments were, well, how many buyers you can get from social media? Or how many sellers you’re gonna get from social media? Either that’s rather where I, I put my brother put my marketing money there, then, you know, I don’t think we’ve ever spent a dime marketing wise on print ads. You know? Right. Me. Yes. We, you know, that would just be a waste of money. And

D.J. Paris 16:22
yeah, I agree. Although I see, I see billboards every so often. And I or rather, I don’t see those as much as like in the city. There’s a lot of bench backs. And I always think, and it’s easy to criticize, because it must I’m not saying it can never work. But I always think who’s calling a realtor based on that. I don’t and it seems very expensive. Maybe it works. I mean, you know, but seems like bet dollars could be better spent elsewhere. Yeah.

Adam Baxa 16:46
I mean, I’ve thought about I’ve thought about the billboards that I, you know, okay, I like to joke a lot than I think, who’d want to see my face, drive down the road. Back and forth. I’ve talked to other brokers that have done a lot of the Billboard type of things and they feel that it really works well. Okay, but they’re a little bit more rural, a little bit more central Illinois. Maybe that’s where we’re at where I’m at, compared to then moving into the city. I don’t know that that’s necessarily a thing that will work very well, today.

D.J. Paris 17:27
Yeah, yeah, I don’t know. I know, the challenge. The cool thing about Facebook is everything’s trackable, right? So you can, you can visually see what works and what doesn’t, it’s like a constant acid test of, oh, that post generated and like you were saying to is, people like certain posts, that gives you more indication on what they’re into. And you get this immediate feedback on what you’re posting, and if it’s resonating. And whereas with print ads, or you know, any of the other outside media, it’s really hard to track how well it works. And I’m not suggesting it doesn’t I just, it’s just, for me, I like to see the results, you know, to be able to draw back to oh, this, this was a good use of my time and money.

Adam Baxa 18:09
Exactly. I don’t mean to cut you off. Sorry, TJ. Oh, no, go ahead. I, you know, I tell my clients that all the time, especially when we are talking about maybe putting putting on a listing, you know, and maybe doing a boost of a listing on social media, where we can give them quantitative numbers, hey, it’s been putting in front of XYZ amount of people, so many people did this with it. So many people clicked off on it, so many people actually engaged it, where if I spend money into the newspaper, or to one of the real estate magazines that you see outside of a grocery store, you have no idea how many people actually picking those up and looking at it. And right, you know, I always tell people, social media, the way it works, maybe it works this way, sometimes. It’s all it takes is somebody seen it once, and maybe it spurs a conversation that they’ve had with a significant other like, Hey, wait, what about this? You know, we were talking six months ago about going and looking at a house. We haven’t talked about it, but look at this, and maybe they weren’t really in the market at that time. And now they’ve chosen to, because they saw that and maybe spurred or kickstarted them into moving into the market. And then at that point, you know, the possibility of them reaching out to me or somebody on on our team, you know, is amplified.

D.J. Paris 19:29
Yeah, absolutely. And what is your Facebook page? What is so if any brokers want to take a look to see what you’re doing? What is the URL, it’s facebook.com forward slash,

Adam Baxa 19:41
oh, shoot, you’re pretty mad spot. I think it’s you. I

D.J. Paris 19:44
will post you know what, don’t worry. We’ll post it. We’ll post a link to it in the notes. So no, no problem. I have I hope I do three of them for our company, and I can’t ever remember what they actually are either. So it’s so I also want to talk about the fact that you’ve built a team and you’ve done that relatively quickly, I want to talk about what prompted you to decide to expand beyond just, you know, you as the broker, um,

Adam Baxa 20:09
really got to the point early on, towards the end of my first year, kind of rolling into my second year, that, you know, I just felt like, I was getting to the point where I had almost too much business to handle. Some of it was from the lead generation, my sphere really took off once I really fully understood how to engage and work my sphere. And it was an idea though, that we toyed around about or toyed around with, and when I say we, I talk about, I’m talking about my wife.

D.J. Paris 20:43
Yeah, yeah, we and we should mention that that Shannon is also on the team. And you know, it’s, it’s a it’s a pretty it’s I always love husband and wife teams, I think that’s very sweet. And the fact that you guys can work together to obviously says a lot about your relationship. I know

Adam Baxa 20:59
she has her pretty awesome full time career elsewhere. She really helped out with a lot of back end unlicensed assistant type of work early on Sure, which allowed me to be out showing, you know, I could call a texter, hey, can you give me this info, give me this, or I need you to put this packet together to write an offer, whatever the case may be. And so it really helps her take away from paperwork time for me, which allowed me to kind of be out there longer. She was technically our first team member, we chose to have her get her license just to make sure we basically use her as a licensed assistant, to make sure we could arrange our gray areas, make sure we’re all within, you know, the rules and licensing regulations and everything else like that. That was probably I would say March of last year, and then is unbelievable. And then from there, we’ve added Jenny, Jamie, Sarah, and most recently, Lisa.

D.J. Paris 22:06
That’s that is it’s truly remarkable. And I’d like to mention to you on Adam’s Facebook page, which is just ask Adam baxa. But I’ll post a link directly to it. I want to make a point, this is a really impressive thing to have done. Within three years, he has over 3300 people like and follow this page. And just to give you the listeners a comparison, so I mentioned on on on this show, we have a really certain episodes, we get about 5000 listens. In certain episodes, it’s closer to two to 3000. But so we have a base of 1000s of people that are regularly listening. And I think our Facebook page, which I’m relatively activated, which is keeping it real pod, I think we have 600 likes, or 600 people that follow it, you have 3300 That is That is incredible for a real estate broker. It truly is and and I look at everyone’s Facebook page, you know, the top producers, that’s a lot. So please check it out and just see what Adams doing. Because he’s clearly doing some good stuff there. I mean, that’s huge. Thank you. Yeah, it’s funny, too, because when we interviewed top producers that tend to be very humble, they tend to be very sort of unaware that like certain things are a big deal. And then oftentimes I say like, oh, my gosh, you’re doing so well. How do you do that? And they go, I don’t know, I just I answered my phone. No, I do a good job for my clients. But if you weren’t

Adam Baxa 23:34
completely comfortable right now.

D.J. Paris 23:37
Ah, that well, you know what that is that is incredibly common. And also, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m grateful that you spend the time here because oftentimes, top producers they’re not able to verbalize because they just do what they do. And they don’t, they don’t even see it as anything extraordinary. And yet it is. I just we interviewed a first year producer, so someone just a little bit newer than you who did 73 transactions in his first year. Now, most of those 60 of those were still rentals, but still, the fact that he did 13 sales in a year and 60 rentals is incredible. And when I told him that he was like really isn’t is that a lot like he didn’t he didn’t even realize so it’s not unusual. But God bless it. Yeah. That’s That’s true. Well, yeah. And in the city, it’s probably you know, there’s there’s more, there’s more of them happen, I suspect. So there’s probably more of a path there for newer brokers to do them in between sales. But yeah, out in the I imagine getting getting a rental listing in the western suburbs is a big deal. Because once you get that the renters probably come flocking, not that I know that’s not a huge focus of yours. But let’s also I want to also talk about you highly specialized in your immediate community. Do was it important to you when you first started to really become an expert in life. Yorkville in the surrounding areas.

Adam Baxa 25:01
It’s been something I mean, for me, it’s natural living here the majority of my life growing up in the area seeing the area grow. Back when everything was booming, you know, Kendall county out here was, I mean ranked as one of the top couple fastest growing counties in the country. One, you know, everything crashed. So seeing the growth out here. It’s something that comes very natural, just growing up in knowing, knowing this area for me. With that said, I don’t know, I always tell my clients, I’ll go anywhere, you know, this is probably, obviously the area I know the most. But, you know, I’ll tell I’ll joke with clients that it’s within the state of Illinois. Let’s go. Right, you know, now I haven’t gone, I’ve gone as far as probably just shy the Wisconsin State Line. It’s probably, wow, as there was a time last year, I was working with a RELO that we ended up I was on some back roads and saw a sign for puree like 25 miles. And I was like, I’m a little far. Well.

D.J. Paris 26:07
That’s true. I’ll tell you if you would have kept going. You could have spent the night at my parents house, because that’s where I’m from. So I am I’m a curious guy and from the city, it is a good three hours, Bob probably maybe a little bit less than that from where you are, but not much. So yeah, that’s that’s a that’s a good distance, the MLS, you know, you you would have had that would have been even tougher to to get showings down there because the MLS doesn’t know they have their own MLS down there. So that’s, that’s interesting. Well, let me ask you this. And we’ll wrap up shortly. Because I know Adam is incredibly busy and, and really appreciate his time. What would you give advice? If you’re since you’re, you know, new ish, we’ll say, I mean, you’re obviously doing really well. But if you were talking to a first year producer, what would you tell them to do? What would be your advice to them,

Adam Baxa 26:56
you know, gosh, I could take this so many different ways. I’m really, it’s the staying humble is the big thing. It’s not looking at your clients, like their dollar signs. If you do it for the right reasons, and are doing it the right way, the money will come, the transactions will come, maybe not as quickly as somebody wants them. I know it’s hard, especially depending on everybody’s situation is different. And people have bills to pay, and you get into this business, you pay money to get into this business. And then you’re sitting without a check. Especially if somebody is dependent on it, you know, I understand I can see how that pressure of shoot, I got bills to pay what how we’re going to do this. But really, you know, I think that’s one of the biggest things, and I’ve had this conversation recently with a couple of different people. It’s if we do things for the right reasons, and I probably repeating myself, but the money will come, the transactions will come. If we’re looking at somebody just purely as a transaction, or as $1 sign, you know, you might get that one there. But there’s nothing down the road, you’re not building a business and you’re not building that pipeline, they’re gonna see that it’s building those personal relationships with people that not that means something, and not just, you know, there’s so many clients that I’ve become friends with that I interact with all the time now randomly, and they’ll reach out to me. And I’ve become, I mean, we’ve been invited to weddings, we’ve been invited to all sorts of different things that these are people that I never knew before, but now I become part of their family, in a sense.

It takes time, it’s not necessarily going to happen overnight. I don’t know if that makes sense. I feel like it just

D.J. Paris 28:46
makes it No, no, what you what you said was was absolutely. And it’s it’s accurate, and it’s echoed and most of the people I talked to who say that, that is almost exactly what you mentioned it I think it’s, you know, first I want to go back to one thing you’d said earlier, which was also you know, the money will come which basically means prepare to work for free, and do a lot of things for free for a while. And and that’s that’s in there. And by the way, you know that you could call it like the law of reciprocity, or just the fact that One good turn deserves another but essentially, if you do enough nice free things for people, there’s a good chance that when the opportunity comes for them to you know, utilize your your paid services, being a realtor that they’re going to feel indebted to you because you really legitimately did help them out when when there was really nothing in it for you. Right particular. And you’re right. I mean, it does. Even top producers I talked to say oh, the first year was was rough, you know, and it just seems to be rough for everybody. But if you just persevere and you do the right things, obviously you know, you must be doing a lot of the right things because you’re having this meeting immediate success, which is really impressive, and it’s not by accident, right? It’s not by accident that you have a six member team. That doesn’t just happen. That happens because you do a lot of the right thing. So I just wanted to ask you one one last story before and I’ll let you go. But I know you mentioned something about herding cats is like a funny story or an unusual story. Can you elaborate on what that means?

Adam Baxa 30:21
Yeah. It was one of our lovely subzero winter days, probably about a year year and a half ago. Went into a showing beautiful home out in the country. You know, acre plus lots nice to develop subdivision with my clients and last person in look like the door was latched. We’re all kicking the snow off our shoes, take our shoes off, start going through the home, we ended up down in the finished basement.

We’re downstairs for 1015 minutes. The door to the finished basement had closed. We go to open it up. Do

you feel a cold rush of air? And it was kind of the only things Oh, shoot. Go upstairs, the front door had blown open. At last count that I had seen there was at least two cats, possibly three in the house. So now it’s two or three people went outside. The husband and wife and their daughter went outside. And then me and the other daughter or tsunami in the sun went looking for the cats. Fortunately, we found the cats inside, none of them ventured out. But it was kind of that heart attack moment where you felt that cold rush air and heart sank. And it was just like, Oh no, this is not this not today. And it happens to be in a neighborhood that I live in. So I’m like great. Now I got to explain to my neighbors how I lost their cat.

D.J. Paris 31:54
Well, I’ll tell you I’ve got I’ve got a similar story. My this is your a few about five years ago, my mom was staying at my condo in the city. I lived on the fourth floor and I had a balcony or a deck rather. And my cat if there was enough chairs out there where you could sit and just enjoy and it was a nice enough day and my mom left the door open to the back door to the condo. And the cat would occasionally just come out and you know, like just walk around on the deck. She never once went downstairs, never in the history of having her and all of a sudden, my mom comes back into the condo and it’s a two bedroom condo. It’s 1200 50 square feet. It’s not this massive place. My mom goes well, I better just check to make sure the cat didn’t like run downstairs. When she was outside. My mom couldn’t find her. My mom calls me and she is just hysterically crying going. I lost your cat. I cannot find her. I’ve searched this entire place. She’s not in there. And I’m like Mom, I guarantee she’s not in the condo. She’s never gone downstairs. She won’t go up the stairs stair, the stair scare her. She’s got to be in there. Don’t worry, my mom is just beside ourselves. So I can appreciate it and she was in the house But cats can hide. So and they I mean I have a I have a small place now. And my cat sometimes I’m like, I don’t know where she is. But I know she’s in here. So I can appreciate the fear there. But nice to know that you didn’t have to explain to your neighbor.

Adam Baxa 33:19
That would have been horrible.

D.J. Paris 33:22
Awesome. Well, hey, Adam. I appreciate your time. And I wanted to if we do have any buyers sellers, or investors at Adams investor friendly as well, if you have anyone that’s interested in using your groups, services in real estate, what’s the best way they should reach out,

Adam Baxa 33:38
the best way they can reach out to me is email or call or text. My email would be Adam at the backs of group.com That’s th e b AX a gr fo up.com Or my phone number my cell phone is 630-234-4472 would be probably the easiest way call or text on that one.

D.J. Paris 34:04
And to follow Adam on Facebook, go into Facebook and type in just ask Adam baxa and it goes right to his page and you’ll see some pretty impressive stuff there. So anyway, Adam, thank you so much for your time today really

Adam Baxa 34:17
appreciate I appreciate the opportunity to DJ really do

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Property tax attorney Molly Phelan of Siegel Jennings believes property owners need a better system to automate the tax appeal process. She also thought that brokers should be the ones introducing tax appeal to their buyers and sellers. She spent the last year building the first ever tool that accomplishes these goals. Listen to our interview about how AppealMyTaxes works, how you can participate in it as a real estate broker, and why it’s going to make you look like a hero to your clients!

Sign up for AppealMyTaxes by visiting this link and clicking on the REALTOR® button at the top of the page.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:16
Hello and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcast made by Chicago real estate agents for Chicago real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris, I am your host and guide through the show. And this is a very special episode. This is our 49th episode or as I just learned, it is technically our pre Jubilee anniversary, right? So I just learned that the 50th of something is when you celebrate that that’s called the Jubilee, which I always thought Jubilee was like a dance in a barn, but apparently it means the 50th. So we are almost at the 50th episode. And we’re so grateful to have gotten to this point. We’re so glad that people are listening and continue to listen, so please tell a friend. Today on the show, we have property tax attorney Molly Phelan. So this is a particularly a different type of episode we normally do or Molly’s not a practicing broker. However, she built a tool for practicing brokers. And as far as I can tell, it’s the only tool in existence in Chicago for the specific reason. She saw the property tax appeal process for homeowners condo associations, to be particularly challenging and not very well organized, and just not easy, in particular for brokers to sort of guide their clients through. So she built a tool that will automate all of that. And I want to mention that Molly is going to be up in just a few minutes to talk about how the tool works and as a broker how you can take advantage of it. But one thing that we recorded the interview prior to the website going live. So in the interview, we’re going to be talking about this URL that brokers can go to, to sign up to get their own custom link that they can send out to their clients and take advantage of this automated tax appeal process that Molly developed. But the URL isn’t talked about in the episode. So I’m giving you the URL right now. So if you’re in front of your computer, or you can also see this in the notes it for this episode, but you’re going to want to go to appeal my taxes.com. So again, appeal my taxes.com. And in the upper right hand corner on the menu bar, you’re going to look for the link that says realtor, okay, you’re going to click on that if you are a realtor, and you’re going to sign in or create an account when all you need is your MLS ID as well as your name. And that’s all you need to do. And then you’ll get a URL and you’ll be able to use that with your clients. So again, appeal my taxes.com Click on the realtor link and sign up. It’s free. So on to Oh, before I before I get to our interview again, please feel free to tell a friend and follow us on Facebook keeping it real pod and find us online which you can listen to every single episode we’ve ever done either on Google Play or iTunes or on our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Send us your suggestions. Who should we be interviewing? What would you like to see on the show? What do you like what don’t you like we are open to all of it and this is for you. So thanks again and onto our interview with Molly Finn.

Okay, today on the show, we have Molly Phelan, who is a property tax attorney at Segal Jennings, and she’s going to be talking to us about a number of things. Probably most interesting is a tool that she built for both consumers, as well as for brokers to use to help the tax appeal process go more smoothly and seamlessly. So welcome, Ali,

Molly Phelan 3:43
thank you very much.

D.J. Paris 3:45
Tell us about you. Give us your background. Sure.

Molly Phelan 3:48
I initially was a commercial real estate broker, I dealt as a tenant rep, which is, in my opinion, the hardest job in the world. Then I went to law school and I’ve been practicing in property tax in Cook County since 2006. I’m a third generation property tax attorney. My grandfather started the business in the 1930s. And I’ve recently joined Seagull Jennings, which is a national Property Tax Law Firm.

D.J. Paris 4:17
And it’s the only national Property Tax Law Firm out there. Is that my understanding correct? Wow.

Molly Phelan 4:24
So what I’ve done, however, is taking a step back from our typical practice we usually focus on commercial real estate. However, I’ve been involved with the Chicagoland Association Realtors for several years, and I had all my realtor friends asked me to help them with their residential owners. And unfortunately, due to the nature of the business, I wasn’t able to help. The ability to properly help a residential owner with their property tax appeal is cumbersome based on The education necessary to help the homeowner and the transmission of data. So, therefore, I built appeal my taxes.com, which is a property tax portal for Cook County to assist homeowners in filing the property tax appeals.

D.J. Paris 5:19
Yes, I just saw a demo of of this. And when you see it, you’ll be shocked that it didn’t exist prior. And Molly’s really a pioneer getting this this portal bill. Let’s talk about what it does.

Molly Phelan 5:34
Sure. So what we’ve done is taken information from the Cook County Assessor’s database and put it in a format that will help us appeal homeowners property taxes, they simply need to register with our website, provide an email address, and then they go through a very simple but

D.J. Paris 6:01
pointed Yeah, it’s comprehensive, comprehensive, but it’s no more than four minutes so far.

Molly Phelan 6:05
Yeah, yeah. questionnaire, and they execute some agreements. And we file the property tax appeal for them. We file both at the Cook County Assessor’s Office, as well as the Board of Review.

D.J. Paris 6:18
And then the consumer is also notified in real time when the attorneys have hit certain milestones or certain statuses have been have been updated.

Molly Phelan 6:30
Right. One of the biggest complaints that I had heard in the marketplace was homeowners who filed the property tax appeals never got reasonable updates from the attorneys that they hired. Many times there are no updates to provide. So what we’ve done is created a dashboard, just like you would have, if you want to log in on your bank, homeowners are able to log into their property tax appeal dashboard and get real time updates on the status of their property tax appeal.

D.J. Paris 7:03
Right. And so let’s talk about let’s talk about the first so I just did the sign up process. So if we think about your clients will actually let’s back up a step. Let’s talk about what let’s talk about the broker side of it too. So there’s a in addition to just having this this website where people can go and appeal their taxes directly through Molly’s Molly’s company. There’s also a an in a broker portal that she built so brokers can actually provide this directly to instead of just sending their clients to appeal my dad’s dot com. There’s a broker portal. Let’s let’s talk

Molly Phelan 7:40
about that. Yeah, again, because I was with the Chicagoland Association, the Chicagoland Association of Realtors, for so long, I really came to this from a realtors perspective, that tie in that we have to the brokerage community is the fact that we have created a portal that will allow brokers to refer this service to their clients or potential clients. The nice part is, is that the brokers then have their name, image and contact information on the dashboard of the homeowner once they’re signed up. So it allows for the broker to look like a trusted advisor by having the state of the art technology as part of their toolbox, so to speak, of things that they can offer their clients. So instead of providing them with, Hey, turn your clock back, here’s the recipe, here’s New bears calendar, this is a real value to their clients to provide them this service that will provide their clients with updates and changes in the property tax law. And it will provide the client with regular updates on sorry, they will provide the client with regular reminders that this realtor is the one who referred them this excellent tool.

D.J. Paris 9:12
Yeah. And also so there’s a a, a broker portal. So as a broker, you can sign up as Molly said, the you know your name and image and phone number go on there. And then you can actually see you’ll have a specific link you send to clients so they can appeal their taxes or or submit an application appeal. And then as the broker, you now have a login, where you can see the status updates of all of your clients. So if you’re logging in, it gives you another reason. Well, it’s also just good information to have as the realtor what’s going on with your clients, but also gives you an opportunity to reach out to your clients. Maybe when you see that an appeal process has been completed, say hey, I see that was completed. Congratulations. You know, that sort of thing and you just know what’s going on. And it lists all of your clients that have signed up under that specific link. Correct.

Molly Phelan 10:05
So it’s a great tool, again, we provide our clients, at least nine updates to the status of their property tax appeal. What we do when we send them that update is we guide them back to their dashboard, we do not provide them with a status update in detail in the email. So the taxpayer will go back to their dashboard at least nine times, and see the realtors information,

D.J. Paris 10:34
which is really important. So I want to pause for a second, and I’m sorry to interrupt you. But that’s really important to think. And, you know, we know in just branding, you know, it’s general branding data suggests, you know, people need to see a certain name dozens of times anyway, well, these are people that are likely already working with you, but to continually be reinforced, and to see you the broker in their dashboard as they’re getting updates on a potentially very financially beneficial situation to them, I think is exactly it. So

Molly Phelan 11:03
and then, as you were saying, the real tour gets to check into their own dashboard to keep track of their clients who have signed up for peel my taxes.com. At that point, the realtor can reach out to their client directly and say, Hey, I saw you got a result on your property tax appeal, an amazing opportunity to stay in touch, excellent opportunity to stay in touch.

D.J. Paris 11:26
And what’s great about this, I’m sorry to interrupt again, this doesn’t exist. This is your I mean, this is so well thought out. Because if we think it, you know, and again, typically, the attorney communication between the communication between the attorney and the client would traditionally be via email, maybe a phone call here and there. Here’s what’s going on. There’s no real centralized system to to check statuses. And so as the broker, you can see every status for every one of your clients, because it’s linked, and then you’re also notifying the client at least nine times along the way. And what is the typical and we talked about this? And no, it’s a complicated answer. But for brokers, you know, if they’re directing people to to their website, what did brokers need to know to to prep the consumer about length of time? Average time? What would what would a broker mean? Sure.

Molly Phelan 12:19
So appeal my taxes.com asks for a $25 registration fee upfront from the consumer from the consumer. It’s a 100% refundable if we’re unable to get them a reduction in their property taxes. So it’s just a way for us to make sure that people who use the website are truly buying into the process, then the dashboard provides them with updates on that timeline, it will tell you when the appeal window opens, it will tell you when the appeal window closes, it will tell you when the result is due to come out. So for example, in 2018, the Rogers Park and Lake View assessments are supposed to be out in early April. So from April to early May, there will be a 30 day window for people to file their property taxes at the assessor’s office, that window will close in May. And you’ll have may in June, maybe July, so two to three months where the assessor’s office is going to review all the complaints that were submitted, and issue a reduction or a no change. So now that gets us from May to August, and then there around that time, the Board of Review will open up. So let’s say the Board of Review opens up in August, it closes in September, again, there’s a 30 day window at the Board of Review, it will take the Board of Review two to three months to get results. So by the end of 2018. If you are in Rogers park or lake view, you will have a final result on your assessed value complaint for the 2018 tax year, which will then be applied to the second installment of your tax bill that comes out in 2019.

D.J. Paris 14:12
Sure, so this this is really important because again, it gives the broker an opportunity to touch their client potential that well along the way, but certainly at the end, which could be, you know, eight months later, 10 rounds a year, which is just the natural process well,

Molly Phelan 14:31
and we also go back and file this appeal for our clients every single year. So this is not just during a triennial reassessment. We go back every single year they will also get notices about tax bills coming out any changes in the law. So the minimum contact that our brokers are going to have is nine times a year but it will be every single year moving forward, which is

D.J. Paris 14:59
huge. As you know, with a condo that I used to live in, actually up not too far from where Molly lives in Uptown is head, it took us, we were in new condo association in like 2006. And I don’t think we did an a reassessment with an attorney and for about three or four years, and if you think there were 33 units sold by, well, it is sold traditional, typically by one realtor, but then all the buyer brokers, my buyer broker never came to me and said, hey, you know, two years in, you may want to may want to consider so eventually, as an association, we figured out that we should, and we did get a reduction. But I thought, Boy, what a missed opportunity for a broker to say, you know, yes, even though you’re a newly formed, you know, association, you should still do it. And there’s really no downside. Right? Right. And if they don’t do it, you get your 25 bucks back. Exactly. So that’s huge. It is.

Molly Phelan 15:57
And we’re, again, coming from the educational standpoint, part of the goal of the PMI taxes.com is to really educate both the brokers and the homeowners about the property tax appeal system. There’s a lot of confusion out there. In regards to timing, there’s a lot of confusion out there in regards to the law. What we’ve really tried to do here is make it as transparent as possible for the taxpayer. One of the reasons why it was so important to come to market with a product like this is that there were several parts of Cook County where people would not have proper attorney representation. They didn’t know somebody, they didn’t understand the process, it was too confusing. We’re putting this all at taxpayers fingertips to do this day one, they don’t have to wait for an appeal window to open, they don’t have to wait for a result. They could file an appeal with us today. And it may not be until August that we file an appeal for them. But they’re in our system, they’re ready to go set it and forget it, it’s done, they will get the updates on when everything is fine. They don’t have to worry about any questions, it’s all there on their dashboard. And it takes a lot of ease, and it provides a lot of ease and takes away a lot of concern for the taxpayer.

D.J. Paris 17:22
Yes, and let’s talk about at what point would have broke. So a broker can go back to everybody they ever sold a home to and do this, obviously, is there some point during an actual transaction that a broker may want to introduce this this into prior to the closing.

Molly Phelan 17:41
So I would suggest anybody who is on the sales side of a transaction, make sure that their client a has filed an appeal. We also check for homeowners exemptions on our system as well. So what we’ll be able to do is check for homeowners exemptions, and start the property tax appeal process.

D.J. Paris 18:06
And so just to reiterate, there’s really no risk to the homeowner, because the taxes can increase. And also, you know, you refund the fee if if you’re not able to to reduce the that that bill. So let’s talk about the cost for all of this. From a realtors perspective.

Molly Phelan 18:29
from a religious perspective, there is no cost. Again, what we’re trying to do is provide a tool for the real tours, to help the taxpayer and the taxpayer is the most important person for both of us for appeal my taxes as well as for the broker at the end of the day. So there is no cost to the real tour to utilize this program. And the cost to the taxpayer is the $25 100% refundable registration fee. And then it’s a 33% contingency fee on the back end, which is market for this type of work.

D.J. Paris 19:04
Right. So if you’re not familiar, that just means whatever reduction we’re able to get you do get the consumer that there’s a 33% fee of the savings, right? And if anyone has been through this process, personally or their clients have they know that it’s absolutely worth it. Yes, because it can save you substantial amount on your on your on your property taxes. Well, again,

Molly Phelan 19:28
it’s confusing. So the deadlines, the forms, when am I supposed to do this? And are you really making the best argument possible? It’s really able to streamline the entire process and worth it because you only pay a fee if there’s a reduction. And I think it’s

D.J. Paris 19:47
also important to note too that, you know, again, real estate attorneys, this isn’t their area of expertise necessarily. And they also don’t work on a contingency basis. With respect to, you know, they’re not out there fighting to get to get the taxes lower, they’re there to close that particular deal and represent, you know, the sides. But this is a very different area of expertise,

Molly Phelan 20:12
it’s very different. There are some people out there that are consultants. However, they cannot represent the taxpayer at the Board of Review, they can only represent them at the assessor’s office on the border review and any additional jurisdictional appeal needs to be done by an attorney. In addition to that, the analysis and insight that is done by consultants isn’t nurse necessarily that of an attorney. And again, for transactional folks who try to dip their toe into this, it’s better to pass it off to somebody who understands the entire process from start to finish. It better serves the client. And because appeal, my taxes.com has the real time results for the taxpayer, it eliminates that burden of the taxpayer not understanding what’s going on with the process,

D.J. Paris 21:14
right. And just to sort of make sure everyone’s crystal clear on on these, these the system. So as a broker, you can send clients directly to peel my taxes.com however, you as the broker will be missing out connecting that person to you. Correct. So as a consumer, if there’s anyone listening, who is who is a buyer, or a seller who’s not a realtor, you can directly go to appeal my taxes.com Sign up, I just went through it personally, it took three minutes. And then all of a sudden, now I have this dashboard. And I’m going to get regular updates for the vast majority of our audience who are not buyers and sellers. But realtors, you are going to want to create your own sort of link that you’re going to send out to your clients. So the way that you do that, in we’re going to post the link will be actually on the Chicago Association of Realtors website. So as a broker, you can go and sign up and the signup process is probably three minutes. And it provides you with a special custom URL that you can use them to send out to every client you have.

Molly Phelan 22:22
So the process is if you go to the Chicago Chicagoland Association of Realtors, and look for appeal on my taxes.com there will be a unique link that you can click on as a real tour. And that will allow you to register with appeal my taxes, and it will provide you with the real tour dashboard that will be unique to you, the individual broker, you then provide your contact information and your image and a unique link is created for you, you can then take that link and send it to your clients, your prospects, you can post it on your Facebook page or Instagram account wherever you’d like and have people register with appeal my taxes.com through your link. And then when the client goes to their dashboard, when they receive updates, they will see your contact information every single time they log into their dashboard. So again, this provides at least nine updates where the client will be seeing your contact information in image.

D.J. Paris 23:34
Yeah, and I was telling Molly prior to when we got started because my job at my firm is to recruit realtors to work here, part of my onboarding process is now going to be to actually create this link as a broker on boards with us so that they don’t they just you know, it’s I think it’s that useful of a tool that all of our brokers should for sure have it. So I’m going to be creating links for from many 100 brokers but also everyone new. So you know that the first step and the easiest step is really just as a broker, go to the Chicago go to shadow realtor.com, Chicago sociation Realtors website, look around for appeal my taxes, and we will have the direct link. If we have if it’s up in time, we’ll definitely provide it in the notes of this episode. And but it’ll be easy to find regardless and just sign up and it takes all of a couple of minutes. And then you now have the unique URL and you can now provide value that I would guess. And I’m probably being generous by saying maybe 5% of Realtors provide to their client.

Molly Phelan 24:34
Yep. What we’re trying to do is make the broker look like the trusted adviser for their client. People are coming to you as the broker for advice and assume that you have knowledge on everything in regards to real estate. This is such a crucial factor in maintaining the value of somebody’s home, that if you don’t have either the understanding or the reach sources to provide understanding to your clients, you’re not doing them the best service possible.

D.J. Paris 25:06
Yeah, and it’s all online and easy. And I again, back to the experience I had with our condo association, the way that we did it, we call three different attorneys, we went through various email and faxing back then, and just a lot of back and forth, which was fine. But not is not ideal after seeing this tool. So this is really neat. And so go sign up, get your link, there’s no cost to the broker. And then when you send that off to your client, explain to them, there’s a $25 sort of skin in the game fee that is fully refundable if Molly’s team is unable to provide tax relief, or a tax reduction rather, but also that, you know, year after year, they’re going to be searching for you. And that’s a pretty. I also believe that the attorneys that we use back to my example, I don’t think you’re after it was was a one and done. And and, and we had we had 33 units. So it might have been in their best interest to keep trying for their own potential revenue. But I don’t believe they did, if I remember correctly. So that’s probably not an uncommon experience. So this this, you know, Molly’s company, by the way is very well respected as as being, you know, quite competent in this arena. But they also have now the systems in place to automate some of the the status of ACE because again, as brokers we know that our clients care the very, very most about communication, it’s more important than knowledge. It’s more important than, you know, a lot of other skills. At the very top of of many surveys done for buyers and sellers, they say communication is key, or Molly’s got a system that automates not that not that the work behind the scenes is automated, it’s 100% not automated, but the fact that you know that your clients are going to be in the loop. And that’s almost a guarantee in the system, I think is is so rewarding, because as Realtors we have to think about so many other things to not have to go hey, did that did the peel what’s going on with that appeal? Right? Because you as the broker, you wouldn’t probably know. And did the attorney get back to you Did you know your systems basically solves all of those problems and also keeps the realtor in the loop. So as a realtor, like just to reiterate, you get the log into your portal, see every one of your clients and see where they’re at in the process is pretty amazing opportunity for you to to be that trusted advisor because you know what’s going on? Yep. Pretty awesome. Well, Molly, thank you. Oh, by the way, if anyone wants to utilize Molly services, obviously, as a consumer go to appeal my texas.com Can they also reach out to you directly?

Molly Phelan 27:58
They can reach out to? Again, we’re doing this through the Chicago Association of Realtors. So I would say go to the Chicago Association of Realtors website. Look for a panel my taxes.com Yeah. If there is a specific question that you have about this email me at Molly at appeal my taxes.com

D.J. Paris 28:21
Awesome. Well, this this is great. And Molly, I get I always love talking to people who are in a way disrupting the industry. And I wouldn’t, I don’t think that’s totally appropriate word. Because it almost kind of takes something’s broken with it with industry, which I don’t believe is, but you’ve just built a better mousetrap, I guess is maybe the way to say it. And this is pretty cool. And so please check it out. Go to Chicago Association, realtors website, get your own custom URL, and there’s no downside to send it out to your clients. And you’re just going to be a you know, a hero. And in most cases, obviously, you know, it could always turn out where there is no, there is no benefit, because they know that kill bosses didn’t fall to that favor. But most of the time it does.

Molly Phelan 29:11
Again, with appeal my taxes.com We are going to take everybody who registers with us right off the bat. Typically, our success rate is about 90 99.9%. So we’re able to get some type of reduction for folks. But again, the important thing is is that we are digging deep to find out what the best solution is for our clients as well.

D.J. Paris 29:35
Awesome. Well Molly, thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate it and everyone go get their own custom URL and send it out to their clients. If anyone’s listening who is a buyer or seller is not a realtor, just go directly appeal my taxes.com Sign up. It’s quick, easy and painless. And then we’ll find out if you get any tax relief next year, I guess. Yep. Awesome. Thank you Molly. Thank you

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

Stuart Jacobson and Marina Jacobson are a powerhouse team in both real estate and life. As top producers for Berkshire Hathaway, they have shown a willingness to give their clients 100% of their energy, attention, and focus. Their skills compliment each other and this interview showcases their personalities and why they’re consistently attracting new clients and getting referrals. Stuart and Marina share their exact strategies for building their business and offer amazing suggestions for brokers looking to deepen relationships with their clients.

Contact Stuart and Marina Jacobson at 847-361-5605 or MJacobson@KoenigRubloff.com.

To learn about Stu’s passion for helping children check out Be Kind Be Positive And Read.

 

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:14
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcast made by Chicago real estate brokers for Chicago real estate brokers. My name is DJ Parris. I am your host through the show. And I’m really excited because I just realized that we had, we’re coming up on our 50th episode. And I wanted to tell you guys spend a few minutes before we get to a great interview with the Jacobson team. And it was really might be one of the most fun interviews I’ve done so far. Because actually came down here to to our little makeshift studio and sat with us. So you’re gonna hear from them in just a moment. But I wanted to tell you guys about how this podcast started, and and why we’re doing it. So this actually goes back about seven years. So I was started with a real estate firm, as a recruiter, I still am a recruiter, and I went to a party that Realtors were having, I can’t remember exactly somewhere downtown. And I knew nobody. And I ran into this realtor who was really well dressed. He had on this like amazingly nice suit, everyone else was dressed more casually. And I just kind of thought, well, this person’s really dressed up. And he and I started talking. And he said, you know, his, he was very passionate, and I can’t remember his name. Unfortunately, he said he was very passionate about bringing professionalism back to real estate, he thought that this time there was maybe somewhat of a lack of professionalism. And again, I was new to the industry, I didn’t really know much, but he was very passionate about it. And he just kept almost banging on a table going. People need to be more professional, and he had all these great ideas. So anyway, fast forward years, and years later, the firm I’m at which we were just a little tiny firm, then now we have about 600 brokers. And anyway, our own brokers, so we have so many, they were asking, you know, especially newer brokers, wait, what are these? What are your top brokers doing? Right? Well, we have 600, but there are 42,000 realtors in the Chicagoland area. And certainly we just have a little tiny, you know, 600. And what I started doing was interviewing our top brokers even at our firm, and then I ran out of them pretty quickly, because, you know, there’s only so many, right. And then I realized, back thought back to that time where I met that broker at the party seven years ago. And not that I have an issue with professionalism. But I thought he was so passionate, he had so many great ideas. And I would really like to hear what other top producers are doing to grow their business, what advice they have for newer brokers because even at our firm, we get those questions all the time. And I also thought about one thing, which was it’s an old expression, but it has something to do that goes something like a rising tide raises all ships, right. And I sort of thought, you know, if we could synthesize the best information or the best practices from the top producing brokers, I’ll bet you that would be really useful for all brokers, right. And so anyway, this goes back to last October, I finally i By the way, I’ve been talking about doing this podcast for years. And I was telling my boss about it three years ago, he was like, Yeah, that’s a great idea. Are you actually going to do it, and then I went, No. And so finally, last October or so, I decided to do it. And I wasn’t even sure that anybody would care, quite frankly, because I just didn’t know how interesting this would be to the broker community. But it was a way to give back. Because the broker community has been very good to me, and our firm here. So anyway, we started doing this. And first few episodes, you know, not many people knew about the show. And because we have, of course, no marketing budget at all. But we started to get people passing it along. And over a maybe three to four or five episodes, we started getting a pretty nice foothold because no one had really done it in the Chicagoland area. And I can’t tell you how many people I’ve interviewed on the show who go, I had that same idea. And I’m glad that people have this idea. And I’m glad that it’s useful in here. We are now almost at episode 50. And, you know, this is something we it’s a labor of love. It’s just something that is a way to give back to the community. And it seems to be helpful for people. So I’m super grateful that it has struck a chord. And I’m grateful that we have all these wonderful top producers who are willing to talk to us and spend time out of their insanely busy days. I mean, we have producers, some of our people we’ve interviewed close a deal like every two and a half days. They’re too busy to do this show, but they still do it. So we’re so grateful for everyone who’s participated, most importantly to the people who listen because if nobody was listening, there’d be no reason to keep going. So as a as a thank you to you, we’re gonna keep going. And also we hope that you continue to share this podcast with anyone else in the real estate professional field, whether they’re Chicago or anywhere it really probably applicable to anyone in the country or even internationally about how to grow their business and some best practices. So thanks for listening to this long introduction. I know it’s a little bit boring if you’ve been listening from the beginning, you already know this, but I just wanted to share it for all the new listeners out there. So please pass this along to other brokers in your in your office or other brokers you meet out in the field, anyone who’s eager to learn how to better grow their business, we’ve got some really exciting new features we’re going to be adding to the show in the next month or two. So I’ll talk about those in a future episode. But for now, we’re gonna get onto the Jacobson team. Oh, so by the way, you can always listen to every episode we’ve ever done on iTunes, Google Play Anywhere podcasts are served, or you can visit us at keeping it real pod.com stream directly from our website, visit us on Facebook, look for keeping it real podcast that’s us and chat with us. Tell us what you like tell us what you want to hear more of this is for you. This is not for me listening to my own voice is for me making sure I give you what you need. So thanks so much for being a listener being part of the show passing it along and onto our interview with the Jacobson team.

Right today on the show I have a very special episode because we have the Jacobson team are in studio which is great because I’m so rarely get to have guests actually sitting here in studio. So this is this is a lot of fun for me and they are huddled around as microphone with me. So we’re here for the very intimate setting. We have Marina and Stuart Jacobson from from Berkshire Hathaway and they are out in the in on the North Shore. And they specialize out in that area as well. So I’m going to first introduce Marina. So welcome to the show. Thank you. And also Stewart say hello, how are you? Alright, great. And they traveled all the way in from from Northbrook. So we really appreciate it. We’re real tours. That’s true. You’re all over the place. And we were talking offline that my mom is a Northbrook, born and raised of native so anyway, so Marina, I want to start with you because we move to Stuart. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in real estate.

Marina Jacobson 7:15
Well, it was a little bit of a journey. And that’s how I actually met my husband in the real estate class about 30 years ago. And I just moved from Boston. And my mother said, You must be a realtor. And I said, Mom, I really don’t want to be a realtor. She says I’ll pay for the class, and you’re going to be a realtor. So I took a class and met Stuart and we start dating and going out and we skipped a lot of real estate classes, got married, had a baby, and I opened a totally different business. I went into a nail shop beauty salon, clothes, nails, jewelry, and loved it and had it for a number of years and then sold it. And my mother says again, you gotta go in the real estate business. So I said, Okay, take gonna take a five day course, if I pass, I’m in real estate business. So I took a five day course. And I pass. And I’ve been in real estate business and for about 16 years, and always was Berkshire Hathaway, which used to be Kenny constraint, started in Glenview. And I’m still there and love it and love my clients. And when I started, the business was booming. So I just started in the business. And then as soon as I started getting clients, all of a sudden, the market tanked. But I stuck around and build up a clientele. And a lot of them became my friends to refer me more friends. And so here I am,

D.J. Paris 8:50
I should mention also that they are a top producing team. So this is a really, really exciting for us and our listeners, as soon as Stuart Tulsa Marina told us some of your story, but tell us about yourself. Well,

Stuart Jacobson 9:01
we That’s how, that’s how we met. And and I was in the entertainment business. And I was purchasing looking to purchase a condo downtown where I was living in old town. And I said to my accountant, let’s take a real estate class. So we don’t need a broker to buy a place so I don’t need a broker. And and, and I said and we’ll meet women. Sure. And, and sure enough, first day, I met Marina, we ditched the rest of the course. Fell insatiably in love and, and then she opened this business as she mentioned. And when she sold the business, she went back into real estate I remained in in, in the entertainment business as a humorist and an emcee and doing a lot of auctions for foundations. And we, when she started to become more and more successful She said you need to get your license. And I said, I don’t know if I can pass this test. And so she said, you have to do it. So I went, I got my real estate I over studied, I passed it. And, and she has been my boss. And I continue in the entertainment business, which is such a great addition to being a real tour because it’s all about entertaining and bringing a lot of comfort to to the clients and

Marina Jacobson 10:29
added to say Stewart takes out a lot of buyers for me, and they always say is to taking us out next time. Oh my god, we found out where Al Capone you still live in where we you know, Stewart loves those little inner for me I love Yeah,

Stuart Jacobson 10:43
I love you know, I love to research the neighborhoods that I’m showing people. So it’s not all about the kind of the house, the home, it’s about the the area and and he I’m seeing the neighborhood so they go I want to live here. Right? So

D.J. Paris 10:59
what a lot of what a great story. So she is she’s your your real estate boss and your and your your other bosses, she is

Stuart Jacobson 11:06
my boss, and she used to be my wife, and now she’s my partner. You know, so when people you know, call her so she’s my partner, and always laugh,

Marina Jacobson 11:16
they say, Well, you know, my partner Stewart will take you out and then we’re shocked to

Stuart Jacobson 11:20
find out, you know, because eventually it comes up that you know that and they’re they’re kind of surprised that she may do so you know?

D.J. Paris 11:30
Well, it’s always good idea to marry up this guy.

Stuart Jacobson 11:32
Oh my gosh, absolutely. Absolutely wonderful.

D.J. Paris 11:35
Read it. Tell us a little bit about about your philosophy or how how you work with clients. You know, I know our our broker, our listeners are always eager to hear what are the top producers doing right. So I know, it’s not always some magical formula that you have. But what you were talking off off air about this and talk more about

Marina Jacobson 11:55
the most important thing first, I answered my phone. So I think this is the most important a lot of times I hear from clients. You know, it’s interesting, I made three phone calls. You’re the only one who answered. Yeah, people find you on the internet, people find you through marketing and through advertising. So you spend all this money on marketing yourself, and then you don’t answer your calls. And I hear that all the time. So I think that every realtor should really as much as possible answer the phone. So that’s what I do. That’s like the thing I try really hard to answer my phone every time it rings. And so and I also use my I guess I understand we always been in the service business before real estate. And now in real estate and NDI you have to understand what your clients want. And sometimes you have to figure out what they want and that they don’t even know they want. So I’ve been a single mom, I’ve been divorced, married, and I immerse three times Nana. So I understand that. On the different times in the life, people want different things. So especially, you know, when somebody’s buying the first house, I love love selling the first house because they just, they really need a mother who knows real estate business, and Who Gives them advice and tells them pros and cons of the home, they will make the decision. So obviously, there’s no perfect home. So you kind of pick your poison, sort of. But here’s all the positive things about this home, I think, and then all the positive, or the negative things that I think and then think that one day in 10 years, you’ll probably going to go sell this home. So I would like you to buy a home that it’s going to be much easier to sell in 10 years. So I think you know those, that’s my philosophy and

Stuart Jacobson 13:54
and we never say no, no matter when a client calls and we’ve she sent me out she’s pushed me out of bed at 1am Sir. And in fact, several years ago, one of our wonderful client of ours. New Year’s Day we had gotten in about 4am than that morning, and we got a call at 7am and who wanted to see a property he called a half a dozen people. Everyone said I’ll call you back sir and we’ll do it later today or the next day. He called Marina Marina said absolutely we’ll show it to you and what time do you want to go he said in the next two hours before we we literally got out of bed showered went to show him we ended up buying him a selling them a home

Marina Jacobson 14:40
selling him a home and then he referred many clients he just wrote me most amazing email the other day you know for another transaction we’re going to do with him and you wonderful guy and you know Yeah, we did a lot of bids and became friends. He just lost his wife so happen And he wanted to move from the city closer to be with his son. So you become friends with these people and you really feel for them. Interesting. We actually went to a memorial service for his wife. Oh, yeah. So it was it was just so

Stuart Jacobson 15:16
now we go to a holiday party. Yeah. Yeah. And we, our clientele is is so diverse, which most agents, you know, I mean, that’s not an unusual thing to be in this business. But, but the appreciation of being invited to to their their home and their religious ceremonial, and they’re the way they Christian their homes, and to be involved in that, and with their God and their ministers, and you learned so much, and you you profoundly assimilate more and more into their culture. And it’s just a

Marina Jacobson 15:53
blessing ceremonies of homes, sure that we had no idea. Well, like I

D.J. Paris 15:58
do in the Polish tradition, they’ll sometimes throw loose change in rooms, right, you know, and, and I didn’t know that until my friend married a woman who was Polish I was walking them through as they were buying a house and the mom was good, right? Throwing pennies. What’s your mom doing on your polish? At the most? So I didn’t know. So yeah, there’s lots of cute things. And it’s nice to just be witness to that. And it also gets you closer to the for those

Stuart Jacobson 16:23
people, right? Yeah, the cultures are so diverse. And then we go to just to show up it we go, we sincerely and truly are so excited to be part of that. Because it’s just not like a client. It’s we want to be intimate with the family. Well,

Marina Jacobson 16:38
you find out a lot about people, their financial situation, their relatives, their relationship with their relatives, and in laws on both sides, the weird family members.

Stuart Jacobson 16:48
Right, right. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 16:51
I want to ask you about some of your service work, that that isn’t necessarily real estate related, because you have a side thing that you do, but I think service work is so important. So tell us a little bit about that.

Stuart Jacobson 17:02
Well, I do a I started out in high school as an entertainer, a humorist, a an MC, a fundraiser, MC. And several years ago, when my granddaughter was born, who is now 10 years old, I started writing songs. I’m a comic song writer as well. And I’ve gotten airplay, and comedy radio shows. And when she was born, I knew she learned how to tie your hair and comer comer here and tie her shoe. So I started writing songs about being kind positive and reading. I live it every day. And Marina has a testimonial after 30 years that this is how I roll wakes up every day on the bright side of the sun. There’s always one out there and I say today is going to be a beautiful day. And I live it. So I started writing the songs and when she went to kindergarten, I was invited to perform for her kindergarten as a show and tell sure which turned into a school assembly and which turned into a lot more assemblies by once the team so now I do a show it’s a motivational kid show very engaging, very interactive, fun, called the stew show, be kind be positive and read. And it is and I go to schools, I go to libraries, I do festivals throughout the country. And And if ever there was a time that kids need and adults, you know I want a kid I say it’s you know it’s Shel Silverstein meets Art Linkletter sung by Bob Dylan I love it and and I don’t promote real estate at the show is short for these teachers and administrators and it is all about you know the message Sure. But it just but of course our clients know what I do sure and it adds a layer of credibility that and the sincerity that we have for people and for kids let and let’s promote that website. So it is www thus do show th e s t u show or www be kind be positive and read in fact if you i ABC the Windy City live just did a feature on me last week as a four star Chicago

D.J. Paris 19:19
and we will post a link to that but I’m sorry. We will post the link to the websites and also that that that new that that that wonderful while the ABC piece

Stuart Jacobson 19:28
and thank you for thank you for including that Oh, it’s you know, the whole the whole point of this is helped me spread this message or and yeah, I

D.J. Paris 19:39
would I just wish more people read in general to get started to as a child probably getting that habit. But it’s there’s some crazy statistic and this is about 10 years old. So it’s probably gotten worse. But it was like the average American reads less than one book a year. It was like less than one book. And I was like really and you No, a lot of people just don’t read. And it’s, you know, you can gain a lot of knowledge by hearing from others. Absolutely, we have a policy here at our office in management, and we don’t strictly enforce it. But the intention is for all of us to read a book every couple of weeks, we don’t always accomplish it, but we try. Right? So it’s, I’ve learned a lot just by reading from others. But,

Stuart Jacobson 20:21
you know, the more friends you’ll have, that’s true, too. You know, it’s,

D.J. Paris 20:24
you know, and the more educated you’ll be right.

Stuart Jacobson 20:27
You know, one of the things I teach for to kids, and but it is so essential in our business as real estate agents, is I asked the kids, how many of you like to be liked, and of course, every child likes to be liked, right? And then I follow up with how many of you go out of your way to be liked? And half the hands go down? Right? And the key to success is you have to you want to be a great violinist, what do you do you practice, you want to be a great baseball player, you want to be a great realtor, you practice, you want to be a great person, you have to practice.

D.J. Paris 21:02
You know, I’m going to pause here, because that is so important. And I just was it’s very timely, you bring this up, I was listening to a very prominent psychologist who’s also used to be a Harvard professor talking about a parent’s main responsibility. And I thought this was very interesting was to rate to raise their children so that they are liked, and it does it. And he says, I don’t mean they should change who they are to fit in. But they should learn how to be liked. Because if they are liked, life is so much better and easier. He goes, You know, we all like to think, Hey, I’m just going to be myself and too bad if anyone likes it. And he goes, that’s a nice thought. But the reality of it is, if you are liked, life is just much better for you and you can be liked and still be an individual.

Stuart Jacobson 21:48
It is so simple. It is so simple to be like but you have to be conscious, yes, all the time until it becomes habitual. Yes. And if everyone did something nice for people every day, we’d have the happiest, safest, kinder countries. And in fact, they open up with a song called I like to be light, where I get everybody engaged in the song I Love and but it is it is so important. When I take out clients. Prior to going to the client, I say, you know, what am I going to do to get these people to like me, right? And, you know, just be kind and positive. Ask them about that. Listen to them. Yeah, and Marina does the same. It’s, you know, and

D.J. Paris 22:34
it comes from a genuine place of interest, sincerity. Yeah, you guys are genuinely interested. And I am, I think, you know, you can’t fake it anyway. Because people can sniff that out real quick. Right, right. It’s my job at my firm is I recruit realtors. And what I always try to do is to be the guy who doesn’t actually, you know, say you need to come work at our firm, because quite honestly, no one wants to hear that. And everyone’s doing that anyway. And so I always go, this is identical. Tell me about you. And I can, I’ll see if we think it’s a good fit. But you know, it’s I think it’s so important. You guys, obviously you’re doing that with your clients, you genuinely getting to know them. And because you’re sincerely interested. And you know, I wanted to also bring up, I were just before we started recording, you were telling me, you guys are talking about a story. Somebody had just called or you were talking about how you get really excited to give information about neighborhoods to really do the research so that you can be this knowledge center. But you’re just talking about a story. I forgot. Somebody just called you looking for something.

Stuart Jacobson 23:33
When I started, Marina had started, okay, she became very busy very quickly, and kind of pulled out into

D.J. Paris 23:40
my life. This is a great source. Yeah, what would you have gotten? You just

Stuart Jacobson 23:43
got my license that week, and two years ago, 16 years, and I was ready, you know, but I had no knowledge. So I you know, as I was mentioning a newbie, yeah, I was a newbie, so I took telephone time. You know, we’re in

D.J. Paris 24:00
Florida. Back when that was a thing. On the floor

Stuart Jacobson 24:03
calls Yeah, really? Yes. We don’t do it. But we there are legions right. But great way to cut your teeth. Yeah, totally. Yeah. No, no. So So anyway, so I took floor call, and I get a call. This is a great, I love this stuff. I get a call. And a guy calls me up from Oak Park, and he has a bungalow. And he says to me, I’m looking for a broker who specializes in the sale of bungalows. And I said, today is your lucky day. I said it just so happens. My name is Stuart bungalow. Jacobson. Right. He says, I want to meet you. I said, Give me his address. He said I’ll see you I think it was that night. We went there. I call Marina I said Marina, I have no idea what to do. What’s the finite you know what I said Archie Bunker. Well, that’s a bungalow and and the you know, and I said and Marina was fairly new, but she was already you know, she was already Yes. immolating into the world of real estate and doing well. And so I said, Come with me, sir. And so she comes with me. And we do a presentation. And you know, I go, I know nothing about real estate. So, you know, I see a path, I see a child, you know, I want to know about their, you know, there’s a movie, and we’re going to Australia or somewhere that

Marina Jacobson 25:22
still does interviews. This is how he talks and he interviews.

Stuart Jacobson 25:26
So, so anyway, so after an hour and a half, two hours, we became we had coffee with them, we may have had wine, we became very close. And, and they said, you know, we’re interviewing about six agents, and brokers, they were called agents that they’ve interviewed some, I think they interviewed some and they were interviewing more, and we’ll get back to you. And I left and I said, Marina, tomorrow morning, first thing in the morning, we’re gonna get a call, and they’re gonna say you’re hired. And, and sure enough, the following morning, they called and said, How could we not hire you guys? Now, and I’m not saying that as an eagle, you know, anything more than we were just so sincere and excited to get that call? Sure. And to help them you know, sell this place. Sure. It meant so much that that this home stood historical, that nobody just turned it into it just another neighborhood home. And, and we did it and we sold it. Well, Marina sold it, you know, Marina, you know, Marina sold it.

D.J. Paris 26:33
That’s what a great story. And, and, you know, look, everyone’s got to start somewhere, too. Right. And everyone has a first client. Right. And and I you know, I think too, that oftentimes new new brokers get really worried about you know, their first client, oh, my gosh, and of course, why wouldn’t you be worried? Right? And then I think, yeah, but if you explain to somebody, ultimately, if you explain, hey, you know, there’s going to be times where you might ask me something, I’m going to check with my team just to make sure I’m giving you the right answer. You know, that way it alleviates a lot of the pressure to know everything on day one, which you’re not gonna know anyway.

Marina Jacobson 27:06
Well, my first client, I never forget, I’ve made a phone call out of now that you mentioned first time I know. My first time I made a phone call from a newspaper you know, by for sale by owner Oh, I remember when to call, so called. And those are tough calls. Those are tough calls. So called and turned out to be he was a builder. Well, he wasn’t really a builder, but he built that was his first house. He decided to go into construction business this guy, and now it’s his first house and you build this house. And he didn’t do such a great job. But it was a bit it was a nice big house. And it wasn’t is you know, the his days wasn’t but anyway, I got the listing. I got the listing I you know, I called my brokers that you have to come with me. I’m so stressed out I’m so nervous. I’m going to this appointment. Oh my god, we have to get this listing. And the guy was trying to negotiate the commission and everything but we got the listing. Yeah, we got the listing and I did so many open houses there and it was so busy, the price was really good. And the place was really big. And that’s what at that time people want it and so this these people walked in the door make a long story short, I was turned out to be a dual agent now my first agent all the Commission’s Well, you know how they all negotiate all the stuff, but I was happy there was a dual agent and I could work something out and help everybody because after inspection, the problems they Well, it wasn’t a problem with the house actually, the outside foundation I don’t even know how to explain it was a little bit higher the base of the around the house. So when I came the next day after the report, the owner of the house, the builder was trying to chisel foundations to make it like and I didn’t now I know new construction really well. I’m like, I know this is maybe not this is a little high, but I’m not sure if you should be chiseling this foundation.

D.J. Paris 29:14
Oh, that’s why but

Marina Jacobson 29:17
these people still live in that house and that client my first client is still my client. Isn’t that him? Yes. Yes. It’s still Michael we still talk calls me every year on my birthday. My friend on Facebook. So we and we’re still good friends. Let me commercial property

D.J. Paris 29:34
amaze. Yes. How do you guys stay in touch with your clients so after the sale transactions over what do you do to stay in touch?

Marina Jacobson 29:41
Um, okay. So you know, a lot of clients become Facebook friends or just friends and you see them in the neighborhood and you I always send out I do touch base with all of them through newsletter. Sure I send out you know, every year new year’s card, I always send a little gift with it. Sure. I always do. I’ve done pies, when people would come to the office and actually pick up a pie for Thanksgiving because this way you actually get to see them. Oh, good point. So we’ve done I’ve done that. And I always send a card and I always reply, I you know, so good

Stuart Jacobson 30:23
paste, by the way. Yeah, really Scott’s in northern Wisconsin. Yeah.

Marina Jacobson 30:28
And so yeah, so this is, this is the way you know, kind of, it’s, it’s really hard. It’s really, it’s really a challenge. And you like people, like when you become friendly, but not everybody you go out for to drink with dinner, but we do, which we do try to do that and send out cards and news,

Stuart Jacobson 30:48
or social media, or Facebook, especially, you know, I’m always attaching.

Marina Jacobson 30:52
So all my clients becomes to Jacobson because Phil writes on Facebook, and

Stuart Jacobson 30:56
I write and I, you know, I write songs about New Years and about, and, you know, I have, you know, kind of a, my own spin. I keep it right down the middle, though it you know, but, you know, I keep it entertaining. So they really get to know us more intimately than just, you know, coming to their home or anything like that, I think. But it’s all it’s all about a positive message. So people and they, they want to hear a positive message. Yeah. They don’t want to hear, you know, people complaining and they want to hear, you know, they want to hear good stuff.

D.J. Paris 31:29
What’s funny, I just interviewed somebody just yesterday that the episode isn’t live yet. So by the time this goes live, that one will have, but he’s the gentleman said something very, very interesting. And, and you guys would definitely agree with this. But he said, you know, you always have to be having just a slightly better day than your client. In other words, he goes, if something goes wrong, you can’t freak out as much as the client phrase, right, you have to be just a little bit less freaked out, right. And in genuinely, you know, because you have to reassure them, you have to make sure that you this is all going to be handled, we will take care of this, you know when something goes wrong, and if things go wrong all the time.

Stuart Jacobson 32:05
You know, one of the greatest lyrics ever read back in the 1940s, which should be everybody’s mantra, written by Johnny Mercer, I’m sure you’ve got to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative latch on to the affirmative, and don’t mess with Mr. in between. So when we have clients that are having a bad day, I say repeat after me. And they become so engaged in those little four lines, a lot of texts and tweets, and then I ended up will you send me that? You know, so I texted to them? And by the next time I see them, they’ve had it memorized. And that’s all it takes? Yeah,

Marina Jacobson 32:40
well, it still says T shirts for the kids, it says, Be

Stuart Jacobson 32:44
Hi, the positivity read. So I take out clients, sometimes, a lot of times, you don’t see the client again, but if they have a child with them, who’s you know, my show is K through five, you know, I like to give the key, you know, it’s like, I can give them a business card, or I can give them a t shirt, and the really nice T shirts. And it’s not like, Okay, you guys, you have to call me, I just, you know, helped me spread this message. Sure. And, and yeah, so it’s,

Marina Jacobson 33:12
you know, when then goes back to a lot of money, people spending, the most amount of money they spend is in the home. So you have to also set expectations, a lot of times of what to expect from you goes through the beginning to the end of the transaction with them. And you really tell them what to expect the positive and the negative and what could happen because everything happened, you were you were

D.J. Paris 33:35
telling me that you you say this is my opinion. This is this is the truth of the situation right now. And that’s really important for you, you said whether they you know, what they do with the information is up to them, but you’re always that’s part of your expertise is here’s what I know. Right? And here’s what I think about this.

Marina Jacobson 33:52
Yeah, right. Right. I almost always walks through the house and I always, you know, I have long many years of experience of selling old homes, new homes, and, and set expectations. What do you expect a new brand new house? And what do you expect in the house that’s been around for, you know, 30 years, 40 years, and you don’t expect it to be like a brand new construction obviously. So, you just and what could happen during inspection and how to negotiate that then, you know what to ask for and what not to ask for because, you know, you might lose the house. So, you know, all these things.

Stuart Jacobson 34:30
You know, I could just jump in here just to you know, undulate my wife a bit because you know, you know, she you know, we talk about a lot the sincerity and the fluff and everything like that. But of course you have to be an extremely detailed person absolutely successful. And she is extremely, extremely detailed, knowledgeable, stays on top of seminars, and whatever new is in marketing or spends a lot of money on marketing to be a everywhere. And so, so by that time, you know, when you meet the client, you’re working with the client, they know that not only are you You know, you come with a smile, but you’re very sincere. And you’re very smart. Yes. And, and that is where she really, really excels, that she’s extremely smart. And what she doesn’t know. She says, I don’t know, and I will find us. And it’s still after 33 years, 29 years of being married to her. It still amazes me that, that she continues to be smarter than me.

D.J. Paris 35:39
Well, I, but I don’t mind. No, I don’t mind. I am. My girlfriend is absolutely smarter than me. And I love that too. Right. Right. And very, seems very similar, more detail oriented, more organized. Right. But, but anyway, that’s wonderful. And I don’t think it’s any. I don’t think any listener at this point is wondering why you guys have been so successful. It’s all pretty clear. But so I want I think we have said it all. What I want to do is make sure if there are any buyers, sellers, renters, ambassadors, anyone out there that is interested in getting in touch with you guys to have them, you know, to represent the them as clients, what’s the best way that a client can reach out to

Marina Jacobson 36:19
you 847-361-5605 And your website is Marina Jacobson, homes.com

D.J. Paris 36:30
Marina Jacobson, homes, plural homes, and I’ll put that in the description as well.com And then what’s the best email to reach 3g

Marina Jacobson 36:37
Guys? Marina, Marina Jacobson, homes.com

D.J. Paris 36:40
Easy enough. And so let’s plug your, your, your

Stuart Jacobson 36:44
because the past doesn’t read. You can reach me either F does to show.com or be kind be positive and read.com. And it’s my phone number is 847-921-7766. And for the first 10 people that call me just because they listened and by the way we’re having you’re so good at what you do. Oh, I wish I don’t know if people can see you. But you have like this, this smile. It’s like I can see why you are successful. No, no and I say that sincerely. But I’ll give the first 10 People that say you know we heard you on the radio show. I’ll send them a t shirt for their child, their grandchild,

D.J. Paris 37:28
whoever that is very jealous. So so definitely reach out to the Jacobson team and get your child a free T shirt. Yes. So thank you guys so much for being on the show. You guys are infectious, in a good way. Infectious positive way. The reason I’m smiling is you guys are smiling too. And also your foot away from me so it’s you guys aren’t infecting me with your good energy. So thank you so much for being on the show. It was an honor they and by the way I want to mention we’re in Lincoln Park they drove in from from from Glenview Northbrook area and we really appreciate that

Stuart Jacobson 38:04
so now we got to have you get you back to North well that you think it’s so far it’s

D.J. Paris 38:08
i Well, this is this I live a mile down the street I’m on I Live In work on the same street so it’s highly spoiled. And but but I know I get out to the suburbs quite a bit but

Marina Jacobson 38:20
enjoy the city. We love it. We come down for dinners and lunches. You know we’d love it

D.J. Paris 38:25
when my when we moved down. So we moved on to curio when I was six and I’ll just I’ll end with this. I know we’ve tried to wrap up but my we moved on to Peoria and you know, I just started I actually went to kindergarten in Glenview and then moved out to to pure Illinois, Central Illinois. My mom said impure is a lovely town. It’s fine. We my parents had been there ever since. But my mom says it’s not in Northbrook. It’s, you know, she she she you know there was there she was a little letdown. Not she loves Peoria but she you know, she had to love what a what a lovely area of Chicago is is the North Shore. So yeah, it’s it’s hard to beat

Stuart Jacobson 39:00
I think professors at the school. They’re your parents. Your you

D.J. Paris 39:05
know, they’re just, yeah, my mom’s in women’s fashion and my dad is in paper loud anyway. Yeah, but, but anyway, guys, thank you so much. Thank you. All right. All right. Well, we’ll see you guys next time. Yeah.

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Caryn Prall oversees 800 brokers at Keller Williams, many of them top producers. She has incredible access to the most successful brokers in the Chicagoland area and today she’s sharing this wisdom with you. In our conversation Caryn talks about what separates the heavy hitters from brokers who struggle, including running a P&L statement and setting up an S Corp!

Caryn Prall can be reached at 630-901-3454 and carynprall@kw.com.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:15
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcasts made by Chicago real estate agents and brokers for Chicago real estate agents and brokers. My name is DJ Paris, I am your host through the show. And couple of quick announcements before we get on to our interview with Karen prom. So a couple of things. First of all, we are nearing our 50th episode, and we could not be more thankful that you are listening. Because when I started this, which was about I don’t know, maybe six months ago, I thought it was a good idea. I thought, boy, if I was out there producing as a broker, I would want to know what the top producers are doing. And that was, it was really that simple. And then thankfully, not only did top producers want to talk to us, but then people wanted to listen to what they had to say. So we are going strong, we have about five episodes recorded in the last week that we need to push out. So we should be pretty busy. But again, the best way you can support us is to continue to listen, of course, let us know what we can do to improve the show. And I’m going to mention a couple of great suggestions in a moment that led to some really cool announcements that I need to share with you guys. But those came from our listeners. And then of course, share this with a friend, there’s 42,000 realtors in the Chicagoland area. And we would love to have all of them listen to an episode, we’re not selling anything. There’s no promotion here, we are literally just showcasing top producers and what they do best, and it’s really a lot of fun. So let other brokers know in your office or that you meet out there that that if this has been helpful for you. So I had a great suggestion from a broker who listen to the show. And it took us about a month to get this going. And I can’t completely announce it fully. But I’ll give you the gist of what’s coming. We are in the final stages of working with a coaching company to have one of their master trainers do a monthly episode. Let me back up a moment. So many of the people that we’ve interviewed these top one percenters have coaches in you’ve probably heard that if you’ve been listening, they hire these professional real estate coaches. And there’s several great training companies in this country. Well, one of them, one of our brokers, sorry, one of the listeners reached out and said, Boy, you know, listening to these top producers is great. But I would really love to know what these coaches are telling them to do. You know, so we thought, Oh, that’s a really good idea. So we reached out to several of these training companies. And we found and we partner found when we could really partner with so once a month, starting in the next week or two, we’re going to have a one of their master coaches come on the episode and do a full episode of what they tell top producers. And we’re going to do that monthly. So what a great suggestion didn’t occur to me. And as soon as it came through our email, I was like That is brilliant, right? So any time you guys have ideas like that, and by the way, here’s some other ideas that we’ve made into monthly episodes. We have the Monday market minute with Carrie McCormick, which is one of our highest listen to episodes where she shares what’s happened in the market in the past month, what’s going on in the future. From a top producer, we have our investor insights, which is a monthly pod monthly episode for investors with Eric Workman, which is awesome as well, for people that are brokers that want to work with with investors. How do you do that? Right? We’re going to now enter this coaching episode, which we haven’t titled yet, but we’ll come up with a fun name. And then lastly, we’re going to have a lender come on every single month and talk about what brokers need to know about what’s going on in the mortgage world lending rates products. So you can stay abreast and keep your clients in the loop. Okay, that was a really long intro, and I apologize if I bored you to death. But we’re really excited about this, this little show that now has 1000s and 1000s of listeners. And today is a great example of sometimes we we go we do a little bit of a different type of show. And this one, I think is so great, because we have Karen PRALE on and we’re about to introduce her in a moment. But Karen is really interesting. She’s great in and of herself. But what we love why we’re so lucky to have her on the show is that Karen actually oversees over 800 Realtors for Keller Williams out in the western suburbs. So Karen works not she isn’t just a top producer. She works with most of the top producers out there, because so many of them work at Keller Williams so she has so much insight and just knowledge and wisdom about what they’re doing. So I couldn’t be more grateful to have her on the show. We’re about ready to get to her. So again, thanks again for listening. Thanks for indulging me in this long intro. Hopefully I didn’t bore you too much. But it is I wanted to share with you guys some of the things that are going on in the show and again 98% Of all the stuff we do is because you tell us hey talk to this person or How about this idea? So thanks again keep those suggestions coming share this podcast with a friend and onto our interview with Karen ball.

Okay, today on the show, we have Karen PRALE. From Keller Williams and Karen has been in the real estate business for 22 years. They started as an assistant and she went to to be a buyer’s agent. And from there to a team, to an individual agent to a leader with Keller Williams, she and her partner now lead over 800 agents. And we repeat that 800 agents and staff in four offices in the western suburbs of Chicago. Thank you, Karen, so much for being on the show.

Caryn Prall 5:51
Well, thank you DJ, so much.

D.J. Paris 5:54
So tell us how you got involved in started in real estate.

Caryn Prall 6:00
I got started in real estate, I was a receptionist at a REMAX office when I was 1516 years old. And I realized I love real estate because my mother has been a realtor. She’s on her 42nd year in wheaton Glen Island area. And my sister’s an agent and my grandmother, her mother was also a realtor broker.

D.J. Paris 6:19
It’s in your blood,

Caryn Prall 6:20
it’s how can I not do it. And I as I was going to college in Ohio, and I was in a restaurant business, and I loved opening restaurants. And I’d go and it was like being an orchestra conductor. And it was really exciting and fast moving and multitasking. And I loved it. And I realized one day no judgment against restaurant people because I was one. I didn’t want to be a bartender at 40. Right? That seemed painful for me. And I thought, Well, I’m just gonna go focus full time on real estate. So I did that about 18 years ago, and had not looked back.

D.J. Paris 6:59
And you know, and now you have such a massive organization behind I mean, you’re with Keller Williams, but you have 800 agents, you know, sort of under your umbrella to talk about, tell us a little bit about, you know, why you decided to switch to to more of the, you know, helping the broker side versus, you know, working directly with clients.

Caryn Prall 7:22
I realized that I love leadership, and I love developing people and seeing someone succeed or hearing their story or watching their life change, because the work that they did, fulfills me. And honestly, I cry probably every day to hear an amazing story and just being able to impact the most amount of people. And it wasn’t for me, the money was better honestly, buying and selling real estate. I mean, I would guess 30% of my agents make more money, at least that I do. It was the leadership opportunity and to grow people. And I just have a passion for that way more than ever showing a house again.

D.J. Paris 8:02
Yeah, let’s, let’s talk about that. You know, I’m a huge, huge fan of Gary Keller’s Millionaire Real Estate Agent, of course, it’s the seminal work. It’s, you know, if you if any broker out there is listening and really wants to, if you only had to read one book, that’s probably the book to read. There’s lots of others. But that’s that’s the one. And it’s recently been updated. And a Millionaire Real Estate Agent. And he’s got other books as well. But talk a little bit about, you know, what you’ve seen from some of the top producers like you and I were talking offline about some of some of the top people at Keller that we both know, here in Chicago in the Chicagoland area, you know, what are some of you we were talking about treating it like a business, you know, treating your practice as a business? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Caryn Prall 8:49
I think that Realtors naturally are entrepreneurial, because they want to be their own business. That’s why they choose real estate. And they also don’t know how to run a business. So I relate it to doctors who joined large organizations, like, you know, to page Medical Group or other companies is that the doctors want to go practice medicine, they don’t want to operate the business. So I think there’s two types of people out there selling houses. There’s realtors, and there’s business owners. And I found that it is no longer how long you’ve been selling real estate. It’s how many units you’re, you’re pushing. So you and I talked about that gentleman from properties that had closed 73 transactions. That’s amazing. We had someone that close 41 in their first year and her experience and knowledge is decades above an agent who’s selling two to three homes a year that’s been doing it a long time. It’s just a very different mindset. So it’s about a business, a profit and loss statement. overhead costs, expenses, and netting the most profit for what you want out of life, which is probably providing for yourself and your family.

D.J. Paris 9:54
Yeah, I mean, what do you tell new brokers when they’re just getting started? Obviously Lee, they’re trying to get the word out, you know, I, you know, I’ve always subscribed to like the Brian Buffini model, which is just paying meet two to five new people every day, tell them what you do and stay in touch with them. Which is, which is not easy to do, but is a pretty good idea. And I was just curious on some other techniques or strategies that you recommend to the brokers who are really trying to take it to the next level,

Caryn Prall 10:27
I think when you’re getting started, don’t be a secret agent. Everybody I knew was a was a potential customer for me when I first got into real estate, and I sold houses to all my friends. And I did it because I cared about them. And today, they’re selling those houses, making hundreds of 1000s of dollars to put down on a dream home. And so we really can affect and change someone’s life by selling houses. But like just you said, Buffini is a good program. And when you’re meeting people, my goal is I had to add nine people to my database every day. And that’s I love that. And that is the MRA. So you’re right, I was given that book, I wasn’t always with Keller Williams, I’ve been with other companies that are good companies. And, and I was given that book. And to me honestly, it read like a technical manual. Like I am not a reader. I’m a listener. And so they didn’t have podcasts back then like yours. And so I had to read it about six, seven times to really understand what they’re talking about. And we are in the people business. And it’s a statistic. And for every 10 people that you know, you should be able to create one transaction out of it or two now. And it’s changed so much with the internet and the availability of information. And we no longer the keepers of all the information that’s out there for buyers and sellers. So we just have to show our value proposition all the time. It’s a constant struggle.

D.J. Paris 11:49
Yeah. 100%. And I I’ll tell you, I have two great Keller Williams stories from one from Nikko apostle. So if you’ve already listened to the eagle apostle episode, you can skip ahead, and then one from from an upcoming episode that has not yet aired. But would Niko did something very, very interesting. When he first started, I just want to share this in case someone’s listening who hadn’t yet heard this. heard this. That episode, he went around and he was young. Then he was a young man. And he said no. Yeah, super young. And even though his mother, of course, it has, you know, this legacy in real estate. He said he was none of my friends were buying or selling homes. I didn’t know anybody. I didn’t know what I was doing. And he said, but I wanted to know just stay busy. So I went up to and this is such a simple thing that really, most brokers could do at any firm. And most brokers will never do this. But he said he went over to brokers who had listings in his case, Lincoln Park was his where he grew up and where he wanted to specialize. So he went to brokers who had listings there. And he said, Hey, I will do an open house for you any day of the week. And you know, just because I want to appear busy, and I want to try to meet potential buyers. And not only did he do that, because that’s in and of itself, you know, not that unique, although it is certainly a good idea. And then the second but the second part of what he did to really drive it home is he said I knew nobody was going to show up because that because none of my friends were buying I didn’t know anybody. He said so I went an hour ahead of before the actual open house would start and I’d knock on every neighbor’s door and politely introduce myself and say, hey, just in case you ever wanted to come over and see I you know, I’m running an open house for so and so down the street. And you know, neighbors are nosy Of course, and he would go he would spend an hour ahead of time and he would drive traffic that way to the open house. And I thought that is so smart. And so simple. It takes a little bit of elbow grease. So I love that that was an he’s now with Keller

Caryn Prall 13:53
it is you know the art of door knocking is not lost. So we have agents that door knock every day. And I mean, Dan fixes was number one REMAX in Naperville. And he came over to Keller Williams about a year and a half ago. And he door knocks 15 doors a day still today. And he didn’t because he got his own way. He just kept hitting the ceiling of 25 million and he wasn’t growing and now he came over and his goal is 57 million and and seeing him getting back because while technology is amazing for the information that it gives us. Nothing replaces availability conversation. It just does it

D.J. Paris 14:30
100% And also, you know, I always say that the two things that are probably never going away, obviously, belly to belly, as you mentioned and also handwritten notes. Nobody does that. And you know, and the handwritten notes are so huge and it’s, it’s it’s another really great way to stay in touch.

Caryn Prall 14:49
He what he did is actually what Nico did was actually what Gary Keller did when he first got into real estate. Yeah, and that’s what he did is he sat open houses every day and lead generated from there And we encourage open houses and we have a unique agreement with Zillow that you can put it out early before it comes on the live the large MLS, you know, the public one. And so you can promote on we’re getting agents who are getting 100 people through their open houses, and selling them on the first day and creating such a stir. So it’s actually in a way, it’s old school and new school hybrid in one, because open houses started. Because we didn’t have the internet, it was the only way for the public to get in a home and see it. There were no pictures online. So that’s that’s where the idea came from. Same with burger tour. But now we have everything available online. But you have to see it, touch it, taste it, feel it, you know, to really know if it’s for you. So,

D.J. Paris 15:45
yeah, yeah. And the other thing Nico mentioned is once he got those people that came through, he said, I would just basically call them until they told me to stop calling. And not in an annoying way, but in a way where he said, I never wanted them to forget that I was a realtor. So exactly. Anything. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about, you know, how you sort of helm the ship and what your, how you educate agents and what you’re, what you’re teaching these days about how to build a successful practice,

Caryn Prall 16:20
really, it’s about agent financials and operating a business. We know there’s a threshold of when you should become a corporation or an LLC financially. So you don’t get killed was self employment tax. So we’re teaching on things like that. I’m not a tax professional. I have a very good CPA. But how I learned to treat it like a business was that was step one, to hiring talent and finding leverage. People feel that teams are negative, or there’s something. There’s this odd undercurrent of non supportive teams and what teams are they’re actually leverage. So it’s teaching like, we have an Agent Alice chin, I’m sure you’ve heard of her. She’s a top Agent in Naperville. She was tired, she was tired. And she joined and last, she has not worked a weekend since last May. So she’s been almost a year since she’s come over because she has the right leverage to do it for her. And we’re teaching agents how to get their time back and find what’s important to them. I met with a woman yesterday about $13 million from another company, great lady. She’s in a time of her life where finances are really important. So my focus with her is how do you net the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time and build a bigger business. She has goals she wants to pay off her mortgage and help her daughter buy a house. And when you get specific on people’s goals, you can impact a lot of change. And so in Naperville alone, where I work primarily out of we have 358 agents in that office. And we do masterminds all the time with our agents. We do training every day. And so that’s really important and our top agents are teaching our agents. So Amy kites coming in to do a listing presentation or Dan first or someone’s coming in to do a buyer presentation, Alice will call fizz bows and expireds in front of the class. Like no fear in that girl. She’s another one of those 30 Something year olds, no fear. And so we have, we have a training opportunity every day, whether it’s in our new office in downtown Geneva, Glen Ellyn or Downers Grove, we have someone teaching somewhere every single day. And that’s, that’s really moving people forward quickly.

D.J. Paris 18:34
Yeah, I know, I love all of that. And I also I do love the person that’s willing to pick up like me willing to pick up the phone and call the Fizbo the for sale by owner at the expired, because those are those can be very difficult. But it’s a great way to cut your teeth and just to, you know, deal with people that may have had poor experiences in the past or

Caryn Prall 18:57
Yeah, the second, the second listing, the second time list is always the best, you always get the price you want. They’re always the most willing to work with you because they don’t want to go through it again. So those are really the best listings to get.

D.J. Paris 19:11
I agree. But you’re right, this idea of treating it like a business you mentioned, you just met with this, this top producer, or rather a $13 million producer. And you know, she’s now in a position where she’s like, I got to start treating this like a business and I got to put together financial statements. I cannot tell you how many brokers even at our own firm, where they should be if they should have incorporated, they should talk to a CPA, they should figure out if it’s an S corp or a C Corp or whatever. And they just have it and it’s it’s there. Not only are they leaving money on the table, but it’s it’s again, it’s running a business. And I think you’re so right about that that all it’s been a common thread among pretty much all the brokers that have been featured on the show that has so graciously given given their time, is they really do too. treat it like a business and because it is. And yeah, I mean it start even starts with running a p&l profit and loss state,

Caryn Prall 20:07
we you know our financials, we’re an open book company, and any associate can see our financials. And so I basically run a really large team, because I run the exact same model in the MRA that we encourage our agents to run to. So when we open up our financials, like Naperville had a finance committee meeting today, they’re going through Keller Williams infinities profit and loss statement, and showing the expenses because we want them to model the behavior. And we also don’t carry any debt. And so that is Keller Williams, Avi, as a company doesn’t carry any debt. So we really want to walk the walk, which does not talk the talk.

D.J. Paris 20:47
Yeah, I mean, we at our firm are the same way. But it is it I’ve always been a huge proponent of Keller Williams, because, you know, for for a lot of reasons, I think you guys, some of the marketing you guys do is incredible. And the fact that, that the brokers can become, you know, part owners of offices is great, and they participate in some of the overflow is awesome. I mean, I just I really, really a big fan. And then of course, you know, having Gary Keller at the helm is, you know, not not a bad thing, either. What advice would you give a new broker or a broker who’s in their first or second year who’s struggling? What would you tell them to really focus on for the next year to help them build their business? Yeah,

Caryn Prall 21:29
that’s such a good question. And you’re probably gonna hate this answer. But it’s lead generation. And it’s the way whatever works for them. So this is how, if you don’t like open houses, don’t go do one, because it’s going to show up all over your face. If you don’t want to door knock, don’t door knock, it’s going to show up all over your body. And so you have to find what works for you and what it is you want. So I moved to Colorado, from Ohio. And because I figured if I was going to sell real estate, I’m doing the most beautiful state in the country. And I was with Coldwell Banker at the time and, and I realized, I love tennis, right? I love tennis. I, it’s a passion to me. And I so I decided I’m moving to Denver, and I’m going to Captain a USDA leak, not an easy to wow, that but that was my way. So that was my insert into my my sphere. And so that’s where I made my own sphere was for tenants. And then I became a USDA lead coordinator for the largest inner Mountain is the largest league in the in the country. And, and so that became my sphere too. And I actually just got a text from someone yesterday from my for my league and said, Hey, so and so needs to sell their house out of here who do you know, and the referral business that you can create is unbelievable. But just whatever it is that you want to do, just go do it and do it well. Because if you focus on what you’re not good at, that is such a waste of your energy. So if you’re great with people in person, go be with the people if you’re good on the phone, go be on the phone, like I had a coach tell me I’m terrible on the phone. So guess what I hate doing now? I do but I do it all the time because I have to. So just like you do and but I love getting in front of people if they like doing a homebuyer seminar, or a first time seller seminar, but whatever their passion is, there’s like 83 sources of lead generation, they just have to find one or

D.J. Paris 23:19
two. Yeah, I couldn’t, I could not agree more with you. I think that trying to be too well rounded is a bit of a misstep. It’s like pick the one or two or three things you really love to do and just hyper focus on that, because you’re right, you were at all. I’m also a tennis player I play to three times a week. And you know, if I was out there producing which, which I’m not, but if I was I would I would be focusing a lot on tennis and making sure everybody knew that that’s that that’s what I did. So that’s such great advice. And you let’s let’s talk also about you know, any potential pitfalls, anything you’ve see mistakes that brokers making their first

Caryn Prall 24:02
they try to have all the answers.

D.J. Paris 24:05
Ah, that’s such a great, you’re right to talk about

Caryn Prall 24:08
today. It’s it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been in the business, I don’t expect you to know the answer. I do expect you to be responsive. So you can be responsive, and not injure yourself legally. And say, you know, it’s like the Disney way. So the Disney way is I’m not sure let me find out we’ll get right back to you. And you still feel scared for but you don’t speak in something you you’re not an expert to speak on. And so that that is probably our biggest lesson is Be responsive but don’t know all the answers because you don’t I mean, I’m sure we still see transactions today that it’s shocking what happens and surprising and not in a bad way. And and I constantly have to ask other people for for answers. So I’m not the managing broker because I’m terrible at details. So I we have people that do that for us as leaders, but I still get asked a lot of questions and I do refer to him probably nine times out of 10. Just to make sure I’m on the right track. So no one no one knows the answers.

D.J. Paris 25:08
Yeah, I think that no, that is so well said, and I’m in similar sort of position. I’m not the managing broker at our firm either. And thank goodness, because I know that I wouldn’t be, I don’t think it’d be a very good one. But also, the reality of it is, is that oftentimes when somebody passes their their exam, and they come in, they sign up? And they’ll, they’ll say, Well, I’m really worried that I won’t know the answers to questions. And I’m, like, that’s normal. So so what you know what I recommend, and I don’t know that this necessarily is the best approach, but I think it’s a pretty good one is to sit down with your client ahead of time before it comes up and say, hey, just see, you know, Mr. or Mrs. Client. I have, I’m newly licensed Don’t worry, I work for, you know, if it was problems, for example, we could talk about how much support and training and you’ve got a team behind you, and you’ve got people to help you. And but, you know, in in our firm, we would say the same thing. But we basically were at the end of it, I would say just in case you ever ask a question, if I’m not 100%? On the answer, I’m going to double check with my team get right back to you within 24 hours or an hour or whatever your policy is. And is that okay? And that person, that client, that client will say yes, 10 times out of 10. And then now you’ve established a customer service policy, which is, hey, if I don’t know something, I will get right back to you. I promise that and and then it lets you off the hook to having

Caryn Prall 26:30
that’s true. And I agree, I’m going to take it old school too, for a second thing that agents their first year, they have to know their market. Previewing homes, yes, it doesn’t happen anymore. And it’s really disappointing that agents don’t go preview. But when I sold real estate, I would preview every home I would show because I had better know that I’m driving up and it’s right here up on the right. And I knew that already. Or wait till you see the kitchen or it’s a wonderful on second floor laundry or whatever it is that has but agents don’t preview anymore. And so getting back to that and knowing I said if your neighbor asks you what the market is doing, you better know your own neighborhood. And so start there, like you don’t have to know all of Naperville. We just closed 5000 homes a year in Naperville. Not we but neighborhood closes you know, over 5000 units happen a year so so it is it’s imperative that at least start with your own neighborhood. And then you you you morph out into bigger areas. Because if you don’t know your market or what’s happening or what’s selling, I relate it to if I go to Starbucks, I go every day against my husband’s greatest well, and I know whichever Starbucks I go to, I’m getting a consistent product, but what I know more is that they know how to make my drink because I can only imagine going to Starbucks and saying I’d like a venti coconut milk latte with an extra shot and what if they stood there and stared at me it silence and they have no idea what I’m talking about. That’s a realtor not knowledgeable about their market area same thing I’d be disappointed

D.J. Paris 28:01
I’d be disappointed too and I think your that it cannot be overstated what you just mentioned and it it for a broker who’s listening who’s like well how do I do that? It as Karen mentioned start in your neighborhood study the MLS 20 to 30 minutes a day know the know every single home that’s for sale at a certain radius or if you’re in the city here you know a certain neighborhood learn every home for sale what the average condo goes for a single family home etc rent prices all of it and just and within six months to a year you will have so much insane knowledge about that particular area you will be incredibly valuable to people for a

Caryn Prall 28:39
city agent know your building and the two on either side of you. And when it crossed the street like just start there.

D.J. Paris 28:46
I love it that so so simple and perfect and it works awesome. Well I think we’ve covered it we’ve covered a lot

Caryn Prall 28:55
probably exhausting in person.

D.J. Paris 28:59
Oh, you and I you and I exhausted yes we don’t we don’t exhaust each other. We you and I exhaust probably everybody around. But we obviously we love Karen and Karen. If anyone’s interested in learning more about Keller Williams, are you what’s the best way

Caryn Prall 29:15
they can call me or text me my cell phone? It’s 630-901-3454 because my name is spelled funny as you know. See?

D.J. Paris 29:25
Yeah, it’s like the it’s it’s like the seventh way you would have guessed. I know. It’s not the first or the second, third fourth. You know why?

Caryn Prall 29:34
My good Catholic parents Carol named my sisters Carol, Kathy, Christine and Cindy. So

D.J. Paris 29:40
it’s Yeah, so Karen is CA R Y and by the way prall And what’s the best?

Caryn Prall 29:46
My name? Var y NPR a lol@kw.com.

D.J. Paris 29:51
Okay, give that phone number one more

Caryn Prall 29:52
09013454

D.J. Paris 29:57
If you’re interested in learning more about what Keller Liam’s offers brokers definitely reach out to Karen. Karen, thank you so much. By the way, I want to reiterate Karen manages 800 brokers under the Keller Williams umbrella that is no small feat. And a lot of them are top top producers. So, you know, we are so grateful that she was on the show today. So thank you so much.

Caryn Prall 30:19
I really appreciate it was really nice talking to you and I know that you will continue to be successful in whatever it is that you do.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

Top 1% producer Greg Cirone completed over 115 sales in the past twelve months. What’s his secret? Aside from becoming extremely knowledgeable about the market, he treats every client as if it was his very first. As this isn’t just a slogan. Greg has 150 5-star reviews from his clients on Zillow! Nearly 100% of Greg’s business comes from referrals, and throughout this interview you’ll learn why!

Greg Cirone can be reached  708.415.6755 and greghomerealtor@yahoo.com.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:14
Hello and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the only podcast made by Chicago real estate agents for Chicago real estate agents. My name is DJ, I am your host through the show. If this is your first time listening to an episode, we thank you for finding the show. And what we do here is interview top producers in the Chicagoland area and ask them how they became successful. And up in just a minute is our interview with Greg Cerrone. And if you are not a first time listener, if you’ve listened to many episodes in the past, we greatly appreciate you continuing to listen. And one way that you can support us is to tell a friend, there are 42,000 realtors in the Chicagoland area. And we’ve got 5000 of them, listen to our show, and we’re grateful for that. But we would love it if all 42,000 got a chance to hear it. So please pass this podcast along to anyone else, if you’re a broker in your office or any other realtors that you know, also, you can send us questions. We do regular features where we ask top producers your questions. So you can send those to via our website contact form, which our website is keeping it real pod.com Also follow us on Facebook. We are at keeping it real pod just search for that. And lastly, if there’s any brokers out there that you feel we should be interviewing for a future episode, let us know. All right, thanks so much and onto our interview with Greg Cerrone.

All right, today on the show we have Greg Cerrone. I have some some notes on Greg. And by the way, he is very impressive too. I’m so glad we have them on the show because Greg got his license and became a realtor at the age of 21. He is now 15 years in the business and specializes really in the Dunning area where he is not just where his office is, but also is the number one agent for that area. And he’s a number he’s a top one percenter court in Chicago Association, realtors for like the last Gosh, five to seven years, maybe longer. He’s also a an award winner. As I mentioned the number one producer in Dunning, and also has been featured in the Chicago’s who’s who. And he is a five star Professional Award winner for the last four years in a row. And he is a really fantastic person. And we’re really excited to have him on the show. So welcome, Greg.

Greg Cirone 2:41
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

D.J. Paris 2:45
Well, thank you, I would love to hear your story about how you got into real estate at the age of 21. So if you don’t mind, yeah, tell us about that.

Greg Cirone 2:53
Absolutely, absolutely. So pretty much I was. I was born, I was born here. I was raised in Italy. And then I came back after I was you know, I did all my studies there, you know, high school, college and then came back to try it out. And I started working in banking. And so in banking, I got it was pretty successful. But I always had this interest about real estate. And My great grandpa actually wasn’t in real estate, but he passed away really young. So maybe maybe I got it from him who knows. But so then I went to get my license just to you know, do it on the side, doing in the side, some extra money. And, and this is how it started. You know, I saw I didn’t I didn’t go in all the way in the in the first I’ve been I’ve been in it 15 years. But the first four or five years I was I did a part time I did on the side, you know weekends after work. Just you know just working hard network and building that pipeline because for me it’s key it’s key having a good pipeline good relationships and just building up. I then eventually when you know when my part time job made more money than my full time job then that’s when i i went all in.

D.J. Paris 4:04
Yeah, I want to just back up. And that’s yeah, I definitely want to continue from there. But I want to back up for a moment. And so you were born in Chicago, and then you move to Italy and that’s where you were raised essentially. Yes.

Greg Cirone 4:14
All right. Yes. Yes. Correct. My were first generation and my my mom never liked to hear that much. And she convinced my dad to go back. And I was

D.J. Paris 4:22
Where are you guys from in Italy?

Greg Cirone 4:24
We’re from Sicily.

D.J. Paris 4:27
I have I’ve yet I’ve only been to Rome, Florence and Venice. So unfortunately not yet Sicily.

Greg Cirone 4:35
You should go they don’t sell Sicily that much when you go book, a travel ticket but it’s pretty it’s pretty nice. It’s relaxed good food. So can’t beat it.

D.J. Paris 4:45
Well, yeah, I mean, no, I know lots of people that have been and they and they say that that’s when I go back next time do like Amalfi Coast and then also do Sicily and yeah. Awesome. Well, so. So tell us so when you started you were doing it part time. I’m at 21. And that point that that seems like a tough thing to do. How did you even part time? How did you find clients back when you were that young?

Greg Cirone 5:09
You know, it was tough. You know, the first thing when I did I just hit it off, like, you know, people that I knew, you know? So I’m like, what, who do I know? Like, you know, friends and family, and, you know, people in the community, so I do any talent show, I’m like, you know, let me take advantage of, of the talent thing. So I just show up to go like to like these, you know, you know, kind of like cafe’s, they call them, you know, we’re Italian guys are just hanging out. And, you know, I just told them that I was a realtor, and just what I did, you know, this past, kind of like, back then it was cards, you know, now you just give shorts and Weibo and give you an E signature. But so this really hard work, you know, it’s just step by step and doing the right thing and, and just building up, you know, but it was, it was a little tough, but, but also, it’s just keeping people lucky no, then keeping people in your pipeline, you know, never forget her about them. So, eventually, when, when he got your first client, then you just do you just, you know, then you took it off for you know, from there, then, you know, created like, you know, a mailer list or, or you, you know, you you sold your first house on you, I hosted open houses, so I kind of started from scratch, it was a lot a lot self learning. And also to manage a lot to, I’ll tell you the truth, because in banking, they they spend millions of dollars on marketing and how to do customer retention and relationships. And I just, like kind of like, I knew that it was work, you know, and bank and then or apply it a lot, but I knew those things could work. And so I played a lot that a lot of that in my business. And and believe it or not, that works. And until today, I still do.

D.J. Paris 6:44
Yeah, that’s, that’s really interesting. And because I know a lot of times with newer brokers in particular, and we have a lot of new brokers that listen to our show, and I know that oftentimes they say, Okay, well, I, you know, in your case, you went to some of these cafes, you know, chatted up a bunch of the patrons, and then got, you know, gave them your cards, maybe got some of their information, and then how did you actually stay in touch? Because obviously, you know, maybe not right away, they’re having you by help them buy or sell homes? And so, like, what would you actually do to stay in touch,

Greg Cirone 7:15
you know, stay in touch different ways, like so I’m a big, I’m a big fan of doing like mailers, so I still do traditional mailers or people that you know, people that I knew or they knew me back then you know, now I have like a you know, a whole CRM, CRM, you know, a whole list that I send mailers, but back then, so people that I knew I put them in my, you know, my Excel form, and I start sending them a piece of mail or you know, just to remind them I was in real estate, it could have been my face and a baseball schedule, my face and hockey schedule, the yearly calendar that I did, like, if I know that person, like let’s say soccer, then I did like a soccer schedule that you can find here. You know, if I knew that person liked I don’t know you know, any other sports that’s not in United States, I did something particular for them and I sent it to them at their house so just it was constantly just being under reminding you know, it more a lot of like, you know, back then now is the last social media you could touch people with social media is a little easier with like a message or email. Back then it was more like on you know, I say like, you know, in the field, you literally was in the field, you’re sending mailers, you’re shaking hands, you’re showing up at people business just to chat, you know, just those kinds of stuff. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 8:30
and I’m a big fan of doing that stuff. Even now. I think that it’s been Yeah, because most Realtors don’t do it. I think it really gives an edge to the people that do.

Greg Cirone 8:41
i It’s funny you said so because I’m a big believer that I think I think pretty much what it comes down to, I mean could invent the tools no, we could have new tools. But at the end of the day, it’s really the basic principles. You know, just common courtesy, being polite, caring about people doing what’s right. It’s things that we’ve been doing probably the past 2000 years, you know. So it just kind of the basic principles and and like you said like you know, now you go you know you do those things and it goes a long way and people people like even like I see a lot of modern, like you know, millennial, I guess they call them but but they like the internet and like to chat and like the emails and like you know Facebook but when it comes to serious things they do like the face to face they like to see you in the eye they like to make sure that they could trust you in order to put on a face to name on the face to that to that message you know and know someone is there to to help them out and get you know, at the end of the day Buying a house is one of the most important things in life and might be don’t want to you know, one of the biggest purchase in their life. So there’s a lot of motions and it’s a big is big.

D.J. Paris 9:49
It is and I think you’re so right that this face to face. Idea does not go it has not gone away yet and it probably isn’t going away. And I’ll tell you a story it Even at our own firm, this is about five or six years ago, the we had, we were just I was working and an attorney walks in, and we maybe had 10 brokers at the time, it was very small office, not much going on. And an attorney just cold walked in, you know, a real estate attorney cold walked into our office, we didn’t know who she was, and just introduced herself and said, Hey, I’m so and so. And, you know, I just thought I’d come in and say, Hello, I’ve heard good things. And if you ever, you know, want to do an event, you know, I’d be happy to put on an event for your for your brokers. And I had gotten a lot of cold calls from attorneys and lenders, but not nobody had ever just walked in before. And, you know, now we have it. And so we started a relationship. And she’s been doing events with us ever since. And I still get a lot of mail, not that many, but I still get some phone calls from attorneys going, Hey, I’d love to get in front of your brokers. And now we have 600 brokers. And I’m telling you still nobody has ever just walked in like that. And that takes an attorney. And I know, there’s a lot of real estate attorneys. And you know, you talked about walking in to businesses and just saying hello and talking to you know, chatting up people who are hanging out at those places. It is it is you it is not a crowded place, there aren’t a lot of you won’t have a lot of competition in there. Right. Right. So I think that I think that’s very, I think that’s very helpful and very important.

Greg Cirone 11:28
Absolutely, absolutely are, you know, oh, even doing something like you know, is not you know, I did so many like I call them like favorites, you know, a client need a notary stamp client needed some information or taxes. Sure. It just stuffed it was nothing to do, I was not going to make a mission was not going to sell them my house. But I kept in front of them. I was helping them out. And then eventually I have many stories I could share people that I met 10 years ago. And then after 10 years, they gave me a million dollar deal. or refer me to somebody that you know, was doing a big 1031 Exchange, or, you know, so many scenarios where 10 years ago with somebody would have told me my buddy will say, Well, you wasted all your time. It’s your weekend, Sunday, what are you doing? And I’m like, no, no, I gotta help them out. Like for free? And like, yeah, absolutely. You know, so that that’s my philosophy.

D.J. Paris 12:14
It’s a good philosophy. It’s obviously served served you well. And, you know, let I want to also talk about, you know, your offices in the Dunning neighborhood, you specialize in the dining neighborhood. Obviously, you not all of your deals go to that particular neighborhood, but a lot of them do. How important has it been for your business? To have a specialty geographic specialty has that has that made a huge difference for you?

Greg Cirone 12:37
It does, it does. So absolutely. So especially on listings, I’ll tell you truth, it may have been true at all, you know, kind of like I met a lot, you know, back in the day when I started, you know, I had buyers all over the place. So I sure I was gone Quinn to Tinley Park all the way to Chicago a little bit everywhere. And I still do by referral, I still go take care of the buyers. But I figured out eventually on the seller side, they want people that know the community that they could trust that they see really often. So so that’s when I started like, you know, kind of a natural grind, I want to say geographic farming, but it kind of happened naturally because I was doing a lot of deals around the area. And and people just seen my site like, you know, a new me. They just knew me from the past. And they’re like, Hey, Greg, I see you everywhere. Like, oh, wow, that’s interesting, because they saw my site, it’s all my just sold posts, you know, postcards, I said, they saw my, my flyer, they saw my office, they passed by in Harlem, or they just saw me driving around, you know, because they know my car, and they have like, you know, personalized plates on purpose. So they knew exactly who I was. So that kind of that kind of helped a lot. And and especially and after you prove yourself, you know, I mean, then people tend to give you more business, especially starting on the seller side on certain areas, like dining.

D.J. Paris 13:56
Well, yeah, I mean, I think I think that’s so true. And what’s what’s great about it, too, is if you think like so let’s say someone moves to dining who’s who’s not from the area, they moved to this neighborhood, and they maybe they don’t know, any realtors, they’re new to Chicago. They’re just, you know, they don’t have a referral. And they and, you know, if I if it was me, I think well, maybe I should just see who sells the most stuff here. Right. And that would be that would be a very logical thing to do. And I think, you know, that’s probably gets you a lot of business in and of itself to

Greg Cirone 14:30
absolutely, absolutely Actually you’re right I do get calls where they’ll just call me because they they they did research you know, because a lot of people do research now and and they just found me and they’re like, Oh, you sold the most and, and my thing what I do, I really stopped I don’t try to sell myself over the phone. I’m like let’s shirt. Again. I go back to the basics. Let’s meet let’s meet for coffee and I told him I like to prove myself like you’re my first deal ever forget about what you read. Forget about my 100 Whatever deals I close. I’m like just like my first deal ever and we meet and we meet for coffee. I don’t like my wife, I’m a big person, big person. I’m a people person, my wife, maybe a little less. She’s like, why you spent so much time on like, you could do, you could have, you know, eight hour days instead of 13 hours a day. But I like to spend that time with people and get a coffee and talk about their family and know about their kids. And it just, it goes, it goes far, it goes far and really produce a lot of business in the long run.

D.J. Paris 15:24
Well, and it’s not just a lot of business. I mean, we should say this, because Greg is very humble. But he first of all, Zillow, Greg has 146, five star reviews, which is, which may be not a small, it’s very so so that’s not Greg telling you. He’s great. That’s all of his clients. And in the last, and I’m only looking on Zillow, which may not be totally accurate with this number, but it’s probably higher. But Greg has done over 100 sales in the last 12 months. So this this is a very active person. Yeah, right. Right. A little higher. So congratulations. And what percentage of your clients are referrals?

Greg Cirone 16:02
You know, I want to say a least 75% 70.

D.J. Paris 16:06
Isn’t that amazing?

Greg Cirone 16:08
Thank you. Thank you. 75%. The least? Yeah, just by doing the right thing. Go ahead.

D.J. Paris 16:14
Yeah, no, that’s doing the right thing is pretty much is pretty much it. Right. I mean, and I think I, you know, you had mentioned also, when we were talking to you before, before the podcast about outworking your competitors. I mean, first of all, 13 hour day is definitely out of your competitors, or at least a lot of them, but talk a little bit about, you know, what you think you do differently? Or maybe, you know, that gives you an edge, you know, that enables you to be the top the top broker, and,

Greg Cirone 16:44
you know, I don’t want to, you know, like, I tried to keep home, I’m humbled and I do keep Yes, you and, and like that, that’s one of my main skills. But if I never, you know, even if I close a lot, I never tried to get that to my head, you know, so I every every, but the main thing you really got, you know, besides all work in your competitor, especially if you’re young, and you’re just starting Absolutely you, you got to put in hours, you got to put in hours because you’re if you want to get more business, that’s, that’s what you got to do. You got to work smart, but work hard to. But the main thing is, I think, I think is that relationship skills, you know, having a good relationship key in creating relationship versus being like, you know, I always tell people, like, I’m like, This is not like buying a car, like a car, you’ll see the person one time I’m like, if you buy today, or you sell today is fine, but I really I’m not, that’s not my goal, my goal is here to meet you. And, and, and Heaven, and you know, me and her and I hope I’ll stay in your phone and be your guy to go there to go guy for next, you know, 10 years, 20 years, or maybe 30 Until I’m, you know, I’m in the business. And go ahead. I’m sorry.

D.J. Paris 17:54
No, no, you’re that’s so right. What if you don’t mind telling us? So what somebody does complete a transaction with you. So they move into their new home, you know, or that you help them sell a home? And, you know, how do you how do you stay in touch with that client over time?

Greg Cirone 18:11
Yeah, no, absolutely. So I definitely, again, that’s one of my relationship things that I care a lot and you got to stay in touch, where were you sending them the right when they move in? Actually, I’ll try like, you know, go go see them, I’ll make a surprise, sees how they’re doing, I’ll bring a little gift, or at least Oh, get a gift from me, you know, by the mail. I think that’s really important to say thank you, you know, I don’t really know sometimes they don’t even expected but it’s really nice. It’s on your way. And then also keep in touch with them sending them an email here and there for holidays. And they definitely everybody receives at least five to six pieces of mail from me per year, at least minimum, for sure. So or even on Facebook, a lot of them are my you know, Facebook friends. So it’s kind of easier now. So what I’ll do, let’s say somebody had a baby and I let’s say I didn’t meet them. Like I’m, you know, last time I saw them was seven years ago, we kept in touch, but I didn’t see them for seven years. I’ll still like, you know, I’m like, Okay, let’s let’s, you know, talk to my staff. I’m like, Hey, we got to send a gift to this person. You know, they just had a baby, send No, send them Santa baby gifts, a new baby newborn, and they’ll send it and, and it goes all it’s incredible. They’ll call me. They’re so thankful. Like, they’re like, oh, Greg, I can’t believe you even thought about this. And yeah, little things, you know, even like a little note, you know, sometimes I’ll send like, you know, like, just randomly, you know, I’ll send like, Yo, the past two year clients. I’m like, let me just send him a $5 Starbucks card. You know, just to just to say thank you for all, you know, thank you for being there supporting me and enjoy coffee, you know, little things. And it goes a long way.

D.J. Paris 19:50
100% I mean, you’re you’re absolutely so right. It’s It’s funny, I you know, I talked about writing a note I was thinking about this the other day I Probably get three or four, maybe that’s even high, maybe it’s more like two or three, aside from my family who sent me a handwritten note, once in a while, I get maybe two to four handwritten notes a year from you know, it’s almost never Yeah. And I always think, you know, it’s a little bit of a pain to write them out. I get it, it’s a little bit of work, but oh my gosh, you know, if, if it’s such a lost art, and people who still do it, reap a lot of benefits from it, but I think you’re so right, like, Hey, I saw this person had a baby on Facebook, probably be a good idea to, to well, because you also you want to do that. But it’s also something that is incredibly thoughtful and does not go unnoticed by, you know, those those clients, it’s not like, they sent you a message saying, Hey, I just had a baby, you know, these, just figure it out on your own and, and set. It’s incredibly, you know, generous. And, again, most other brokers, I’m not sure they even think to pay attention to see if their clients were going through life transitions. So I think that’s really smart.

Greg Cirone 21:04
Yeah, no, it’s just becoming the really, most of my clients, a lot of them become my friends. So sometimes I get in trouble. And there are days parties. You know, I don’t know, if my wife likes all the, you know, these new invitation shows that we have, she’s like, ah, you know, we’re too busy. But, but no, I enjoy it. I really, I really enjoyed this, I guess that’s, you know, that’s my personality, I really like to just, you know, talk with me, I’m not a I’m not a desk guy. And that was a problem with banking. Like, it was nice, but I felt like I was in a cage. You know, I never, you know, I was too much in an office, I like to be out and about and meet people and just, you know, interact. So

D.J. Paris 21:41
well. Yeah. And, you know, that’s, that’s obviously very obvious, just chatting with you. And I just, I’m stuck on something you had said earlier. And I think it’s, it may encapsulate why you’re so successful. If we had to break it down to one sentence, I just realized, when you said this, it was so simple. It’s very profound, though. And he said, I treat every deal as if it’s my first. And, and I know that was kind of a throwaway line for you. Because it because that’s not like a slogan of yours. Like, that’s how you actually believe and think it’s not this tagline that you throw on, you actually act that way. And as a result of that, I mean, that’s what every consumer wants, they want their broker to, like, treat it as if you’re their only client, and you’re the most important thing in their life. And so I just wanted to go back to that for a second. Because I thought that was really a very profound thing you said in a very simple way. So you know, that’s, I always tell it because we have so many brokers in our office, I always say, if you can have your clients feel that you’re that you’re their only client in a positive way, like you are just giving them all of everything. Boy, they will tell everyone they know about you.

Greg Cirone 22:46
It’s true. It’s true. It’s so true.

D.J. Paris 22:49
Yeah, are the managing broker or the sorry, the owner of our company, I used to have a philosophy back when he was producing, he was a top top producer as well. And his philosophy was, because I never wanted a client to have to call me first like with a question. So and I thought, What a great philosophy.

Greg Cirone 23:09
It’s so true. You know, one thing I do too Anatol, any, like you know, new guys starting and they want advice. If you have somebody comes up to your mind, and you know that fight, you’re dealing with a file, and he’s in your mind, call him right away. Because he means that guy’s thinking about you. There’s a special energy out there. Yes, we’re, it’s some that something’s telling you. That guy’s thinking about you. You got to call him contact him. And I’m positive. He’s gonna tell you Oh, my God, I wasn’t about to call you. I was about to tell you. So like your, like your manager, your or your, you know, your manager used to tell you, it really it felt true. I really am a true believer that well, yeah.

D.J. Paris 23:42
And and you know, buying, buying and selling homes can be very confusing to the average person too. And there’s just so many steps and so many unknowns. And I think oftentimes realtors, sort of because they’re so close to it. They forget that not everyone gets every understands every Yeah, so we say like in the terminology. Absolutely. So well, gosh. Oh, tell us about. So I wanted to go to a couple of the stories that you had. You had mentioned before we started what tell me about the big dog incident. We were locked in the bathroom?

Greg Cirone 24:12
I don’t know. It’s still a scary story a little bit. I tell us no, no, I was pretty good. So I had a showing I was a client of mine. We’re showing a couple of three properties. So we get to this property. I knew there was a dog that the agent told me Be aware of a dog. But it’s it’s going to be it’s not going to be be aware of the dog is going to be in the cage. Do not worry. It’s a big dog. Don’t be scared is going to be in the cage. I’m like, Okay, no problem. Like okay, cool. You know, I’ve done this before. So we opened the door we get in. We’re about to walk in the kitchen. And this dog I hear the dog I told my client, don’t you she’s like, it’s they’re proud. It’s their dogs here. I’m like, Don’t worry, no big deal. It’s in the cage. Don’t worry about it. All Associates is huge. I didn’t know what the kind of dog it was. It was huge. It was literally it was bigger than me. And it’s calm. It’s like barking Start running. Luckily, we just got so lucky. On the right side, there was a bathroom. So I turned my client like I literally throw like line in there, I go in there, I locked myself inside, and the dog is going crazy, like barking and try and knock the door down. And not that I’m afraid of dogs. But I think that that wasn’t that friendly. And long story short, we were we were in the bathroom for an hour because I had to, you know, call the agent the owner wasn’t around and went to work. And pretty much we were for an hour we were in the bathroom chit chatting. And you know, I guess we went over comps and properties.

D.J. Paris 25:36
Well, it’s good bonding time, I guess. Boy, that’s funny. What a funny story. Tell, tell me also about you. I know you had a story. And I’m sure this has happened because it happens to all brokers. But we had to get a deal fall apart, but you kept the relationship going. And you found another another home. I know you had mentioned there was a story there.

Greg Cirone 25:56
Yeah, there was a it was a really nice house was hard for my client to find it was one of those, you know, one of those clients wanted either two blocks that he wanted. And that’s it. And we finally found that everything was going good. The kids used to own the house. And, and they were going to sell it but I guess they had they got cold feet it the seller, I rose representing the buyer and they literally canceled the day of closing, they did not show up at the closing Oh, ethical schedule ready moving trucks. Everything was it was a nightmare. It was for him, he was so straight. He was so like, he didn’t want to look for houses anymore. He was upset. It was like the worst thing ever, you know, and it was a first time homebuyer and it, it was tough. So it was really tough. But again, you know, I was able to, you know, just keep them calm, and, you know, just, you know, just go to, you know, meet up with him. And if you don’t give him some time and, and we went out there, I told him sometimes I’m a big believer if it’s not meant to be it’s not meant to be and like maybe, you know, it was a sash or who knows. And, and believe it or not, then after, you know, took a little bit after a few months, we found something else and he’s happy now. And you can even you know, he’s happier than the other house that he last saw. So it worked out really well. So sometimes you just gotta have like, you know, there’s a lot of challenges, a lot of challenges, you know, and you got to have a strong mindset and it just never, you know, you gotta be stronger than your client, you know, you just got to be, you know, even if it beats you up, you gotta be like, okay, it’s okay. Let me you know, get upset for two minutes, I get up so two minutes in my car, then it’s like, okay, you know what, I gotta, you know, I gotta be there stronger for my client and, and help them out and, and don’t panic. And, and, you know, it just got to be strong mindset.

D.J. Paris 27:41
Well, it’s clearly worked out very, very well for you. Greg has had an incredible amount of success in his 15 years and has seen I see no sign of it slowing so we, you know, by the way, if there are any buyers, sellers, renters, investors, anyone out there who’s interested in working with Greg, I want to make sure we give Greg’s website, which is by the way, it’s Greg the realtor.com. And Greg, by the way, Greg is also the managing broker of his office which is called interdomain Realty, it’s in the dunny neighborhood. Greg works all over though he’s not just limited to the Dunning area. So it’s important to to mention but Greg, what’s the best way if anyone’s out there wants to work with you that they can reach out,

Greg Cirone 28:20
you know, just give me a call or text me. I’ll give you my cell phone is 708-415-6755.

D.J. Paris 28:29
Awesome. So shoot him a text or a call. Do you want to give your email as well?

Greg Cirone 28:33
Yeah. It’s Greg home realtor. One word Greg home realtor@yahoo.com.

D.J. Paris 28:41
Awesome. Well, Greg, we are so glad to have you on the show. I think you said a lot of really wise things. So hopefully our listeners will appreciate it as much as I did. So thank you so much, and we appreciate appreciate you being on Thank you.

Greg Cirone 28:55
Thank you. Thanks for having me, DJ

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Michael Mandile closed 73 transactions in his first year. I’d like to repeat that for everyone. 73 TRANSACTIONS IN HIS FIRST YEAR. In our conversation Michael talks about the philosophy he developed called C.L.I.E.N.T., and how he uses it with every customer and how it generates referral after referral for his business. And, oh yeah, Michael sources every single one of his clients on his own. Already a top 1% in his first year, this is an interview not to miss!

Michale Mandile can be reached at 847.322.8827 and michael@chicagoluxhomes.com.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:16
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcast made by Chicago real estate brokers for Chicago real estate brokers. My name is DJ Parris, I am your host, and welcome to the show. If this is your first time listening, we appreciate it. Or if you’re a regular listener, we also appreciate that too. Please tell a friend if you have other brokers in your office that could benefit from hearing from top producers like Michael Mann de les, who we are about to interview in just a moment, please let them know about it. And so pal, a friend passed this podcast on we have 1000s of listeners and can always use more. Speaking of if you have any brokers that you admire that are really out there doing interesting things that we need to interview for future episodes, let us know. So you can visit our website, which by the way, not only can you let us know about people we should be interviewing, but you can listen to every episode we’ve ever done. Our website is keeping it real pod.com also find us on Facebook, we publish all of our podcasts there too, which is just search for keeping it real pod. And also a couple of regular features that we have on the show. In addition to interviewing top producers, we have a few top producers that do regular segments. Once a month, we have Eric workman who talks about investments. Eric is an investment specialist. And so be on lookout for those episodes. And we also have the wonderful Carrie McCormack who talks about what’s going on in the market that brokers need to know she looks. We look back the previous month and forward the future the next month. Now the great thing about Eric and Carrie is they are here to answer your questions. So if you have any questions about investments, let us know you can send those through our website or through Facebook or email. We’re really easy to find and Eric and and also Carrie are here to answer those questions. Kerry’s great for if you have questions about how to be successful as a as a realtor. But please send us those questions. We greatly appreciate it. But now let’s get on to our interview with first year superstar Michael Mann de la.

Today on the show we have Michael P. Mandalay who is a graduate of DePaul and double majored in business and poli sci has an extensive background in real estate sales, property investments and property management. He’s been he was raised in a family of real estate investors, Michael has gone from observing family business to working his way into the world of real estate. He’s joined at properties as a driven real estate broker in downtown Chicago. Michael is best known for his incomparable customer service and takes pride in his client philosophy. That’s an acronym that he developed, which stands for customer service loyalty, integrity, energy negotiations, and triumph, which are six actions he guarantees his clients will receive from him and he’s downtown residents since 2007. He’s also an enthusiastic member of the community enjoys traveling, while going to Black Hawk games dining out excetera when the you know, when the real estate comes to mind, Michael is your guy. So thank you for being on our show. We appreciate it.

Michael Mandile 3:26
Awesome. Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

D.J. Paris 3:28
So we always like to start our shows by asking how people people’s about people’s journey and brokers journey into the business, you obviously have a family history of it. Can you talk a little bit about that history? And then sort of what propelled you to continue on?

Michael Mandile 3:43
Absolutely. So you know, growing up my parents, my parents dabbled in real estate, nothing crazy, but investment in property here investment in property there, you know, more so on the rental side, just as my childhood, you know, rather than sometimes playing outside or being with friends, I was being dragged around to, you know, rundown properties that were looking to be fixed or collected or and stuff like that. So, you know, I saw the ethic of hard work a but real estate be and it always stuck with me. I always enjoyed it and, you know, started to appreciate it later on in life.

D.J. Paris 4:17
And is your family originally from Chicago?

Michael Mandile 4:20
Yes, both my parents are from Italy. But, you know, prior to moving here, they came when they were younger. They both are from the Chicago suburb area.

D.J. Paris 4:30
Gotcha. So, so at what age did you get in get your broker license?

Michael Mandile 4:36
I just received my broker’s license about a year ago.

D.J. Paris 4:41
That’s, that’s amazing. And you’ve you’ve had a pretty impressive start. And you know, I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of people even within a year, who fizzle out or who don’t continue on. I know you know, the dropout rate in this industry is obviously shockingly high. But can you talk a little bit about You know, what you feel you’ve done. That’s helped keep your business going and growing.

Michael Mandile 5:05
Absolutely. So yeah, I started a year ago, I’m 73 transactions in 2017. This year is rockin.

D.J. Paris 5:12
That is, by the way, let’s I want to pause, and I’m going to repeat that it’s 73 transactions in a year is in incredible, incredible incredible. And I say that as the the firm I’m at we have 600 brokers at properties has about 3000. So I can tell you that even with our 600 brokers that would that would be an incredible for a veteran agent, that would be an incredible year. So congrats to you, that’s so much

Michael Mandile 5:39
appreciate that. So to answer your question, it’s, it’s a lot of everything. You know, it’s it’s persistence, it’s hard work, it’s just seeing what you want. And really focusing on that goal and putting in the drive and the effort until you you’ve accomplished what you need to accomplish. And you know, always looking to improve always looking to be better always looking to grow your network, your sphere of people, it’s it’s real estate on the mind, from the moment you wake up the moment you go to bed, it’s it’s what I’ve programmed into my head, and it’s worked, you know, just networking connections, shaking hands, and always having your radar up to see what’s available and who needs. Who needs a real estate broker.

D.J. Paris 6:21
Yeah, and, you know, it’s, it’s so funny. So we interview a lot of, you know, basically everyone we interview as a top broker for this show. And oftentimes, they there isn’t a secret of Magic Bullet sort of strategy that they’ve employed that no one else knows about. And they’re like, oh, you know, I have this sort of special way of getting business that, you know, nobody else is privy to, it tends to be, well, I tell everyone what I do. And I stay in touch. And I wake up thinking about real estate. And, you know, so what you’re what you’re how you answered that was was really very, very in line with with all the other top producers, but I want to drill down just a little bit because oftentimes with with the brokers we have, who do listen, who aren’t yet top producers, they’re constantly going well, but what does he actually do? And I know that sometimes that’s hard to verbalize, because you’re like, I just, you know, tell everybody, but, you know, when you first started, how did you make sure that everybody you knew in your sphere of influence knew you were a broker? Was there? Did you communicate that anyway, to make sure everybody knew that you had now gotten your license and could help them? Sure, well,

Michael Mandile 7:27
first, first off, I had properties training was amazing. I mean, he really instilled some, some great techniques and great ideas as to what to do. But I mean, I literally, I went through my cell phone, you know, and what literally reached out to everyone I had, you know, whether I talk to them every day, or haven’t talked to them in years, went through my email database, who have I communicated in some way shape or form with emails, neighbors, you know, door guys, I’ve at the store, you’re in line, you start talking with the person behind you, whatever it may be, but I really just digging into whoever I’ve crossed paths with in my life, and really just wanted to let them know that, hey, I’m in real estate, whatever you need, I’m here to help you. And, you know, a lot of people responded to that, to really get me off my feet, they put trust in me to, to get get going. And, and I was grateful for that. So that really helped to give me confidence. And it gave me some momentum to roll with.

D.J. Paris 8:30
Yeah, and I’ve always thought too, sometimes a newer broker may the one of the objections they’ll have to doing that is to like, but I don’t know enough, what if I screw up, you know, and these are my closest friends and family these and I always say, well, these are the people most likely to forgive you number one, if you make a mistake. But also, you know, and hopefully you work for a firm that helps you along the way and of course, at properties has that reputation. And you know, they’re going to assist you through every step of it. But also I find that, you know, it’s such a simple thing to do is to go through your, you know, your address book, essentially, you know, digital address book and go, I’m going to make sure everybody knows what I do. And, you know, of course, we tell our brokers to do that new brokers do the same thing. And I suspect most of them still don’t do it. And it’s a real shame, because I don’t know how else you would expect to grow your business. And, you know, it’s just, you know, even if you just wrote everyone a little personal note and said, Oh, by the way, I’m now a broker. Here’s my card if you need anything, you know, buy, sell rent, etc. I’m your I’m your guy. It’s pretty simple. And it’s essentially what you’ve what you did. And obviously it worked out really well. So what what percentage would you would you estimate of the 70 Plus transactions were from your existing sphere?

Michael Mandile 9:50
I would say maybe seven or eight. I don’t know. off the bat.

D.J. Paris 10:01
Sure, yeah, and for most brokers even getting seven to eight transactions in a first year is not a bad first year. So it’s I we didn’t I don’t know if you know, Nico apostle Amis over at Keller Williams, he, he was talking about his first year and what he used to do, I don’t know if you did this, but he would host open, he had no no listings, he had no clients. He was from the Linkin Park area, I was born and raised. But he’s like, I, we, he was like, 22, he’s like, nobody’s gonna give me a million dollar home to sell for them. This, he’s been in the business forever now. But at the time, he went and went to every top producer in his office and said, I will do open houses for you in Lincoln Park and Lakeview, because that’s where I want to specialize. And it makes me seem like I’ve got stuff going on. And, and he did that. And then he would go knock on everyone’s door, who was adjacent to the homes, that he was doing the open houses and meet the neighbors. And he would say, hey, just so you know, I’m doing this open house. And that was one of the ways in which he, he built his business, which I thought was very interesting. But he ultimately ended up would call all his friends and say, Please come to this open house, I need I need bodies to show up. So how did you where did the other deals come from? How were you able to get out there? You talked about networking? You know, is there any particular secret sauce to networking that you’d recommend? Or that’s worked for you?

Michael Mandile 11:21
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s always having your radar up. So I mean, I, it wasn’t typical networking, to generate the other leads, or whatever it was more, you know, like you said, having an open house and see who comes following up with them referrals, you know, from a deal, you receive another deal, people are impressed with how you work, or they give you a referral. You know, in the doorman where I lived, you know, making a connection with him, you know, the lobby, just just really putting your face out there and really just reminding people that you indirectly cross paths with after you reach into your original database that you’re in real estate. And, you know, like you said, like showing people you’re busy, I think helped, you know, hey, I’m sending out a mailer or posting something on your Facebook and people share it, whatever it may be. And there’s a lot of uncomfortable situations where you know, you’re cold calling, or, you know, you’re sending emails to people you don’t know or you’re like you said, knocking on doors. I mean, it’s it’s doing a lot of things that I didn’t want to do out of my comfort. Sure. But I realized I had to do to generate some success, generate some business. So

D.J. Paris 12:35
yeah, I was I interviewed and these are at properties, a grace Goro and Julia Brenner, who are partners. And they’re also grace is the she’s in the why I’m on the YPN. Board. i She’s not the president. I think she’s the vice president. But anyway, I interviewed them as a team. And they’re young and and they’re killing it. They’re top one percenters. And I asked them how they grew their business. And they said, they did it with rentals. And they said, you know, we didn’t have any sales right away. And they’re from they’re both from Park Park Ridge, but they said, No, we just didn’t have any. So we did rentals, and then we turned all of those, not all of them, but we turned a lot of those renters into buyers, you know, within within a year or two, and we stayed on top of it. And one of the thoughts I had for you know, you talked about, you know, making friends with your doorman. If you if you, if you’re a broker out there, you’re listening, and you want an idea of of how to potentially work with more renters, which a lot of brokers, you know, don’t necessarily want to do because they’d rather do sales. And obviously, that’s a great thing too. But if you did want to do rentals, one idea that that I would always recommend is, you know, if you go to some of these buildings, or if you live in a building with a doorman, and it’s an apartment building, and it’s in particular, the high rises, you could go in and say hey, what do you guys do? Or even just the the management company if they if they’re there on site? So what do you guys do when somebody decides not to and to rent an apartment here? They come in, they see it? Maybe they even run a credit check and then they just decide elsewhere? What do you do and, and I think what you’d probably find is those doorman or even the management people, they’re on site, just go ahead, I don’t know, we just let them go. And if you can build a relationship with those people and say, Well, geez, I have access to 1000s of other apartments. I’d love to talk to that person. You know, you probably get a few leads that way. Sure. Absolutely.

Michael Mandile 14:23
Absolutely. I rentals were huge for me my first first year I mean, that was a big part of my business a huge part. And you know it’s it’s it’s only been a year since I’ve started with this business and I’m starting now to receive Hey, I’m looking to buy Can we go out and take a look so I definitely look forward to that but I anticipate that happening that’s huge. Yeah, it’s

D.J. Paris 14:46
it’s such a great thing. I think rentals are so awesome for brokers in their first year if they’re not slammed with sales and Most brokers are not slammed with sales in their first year. It’s just a great way to stay busy to earn earn some some faster Income and sales will bring, and also set yourself up, you know, for future sales. I know for me personally, I was 30, before I bought my place. And I probably could have bought a year or two before I did, but I just didn’t know that I could I really didn’t, I was a smart enough person who knew nothing about real estate. And I, the only reason I ever ended up buying a place as my friend who, oddly enough was my boss. But at the time, I was in technology, and he said, you know, you buy a place, you should buy a place. And I said, Oh, really, I just didn’t know. So I think this education piece of it is so huge. And, you know, if you’re working with renters, you have this amazing opportunity to stay in touch. And they’re going to use a realtor when they buy a place. And it might as well be you. Right? Absolutely.

Michael Mandile 15:44
Yeah, I mean, stay in touch with them. And, you know, how is everything and you know, kind of reach out and build a relationship with them. And it’s also good practice for brokers just getting started you get experience with the MLS, you know, your back end with the company, you work for contracts, you know, being on your feet scheduling, stuff like that. So it’s a great experience. And like you said, it’s it’s easier money, you know, there’s more people in the renter pool, especially here in Chicago. I mean, the markets insane with that right now. So, so, great opportunity.

D.J. Paris 16:17
Agreed. And, and again, these are, many of them are future buyers, and you might have to wait a year or two, but it’s certainly, you know, they’re going to use someone and it’s going to almost certainly be someone they know. So it might as well be the person that’s helped them find the apartment, right. So that’s, that’s a so well said, tell us a little bit about your client philosophy. Can we break that down a little bit? Absolutely. So

Michael Mandile 16:41
I it’s something I kind of stick to in my head, and I just want to let my clients know that I will do that. For them. It’s a protocol I follow. So I mean, you have to offer customer service to your clients. I mean, no matter what the customer’s always right, the customer’s always first. You have to be there for them, you know, people are counting on you. Your responsiveness, your promptness, you’re giving them what they want, you know, they want to change areas or they want to change budget, just do it. That really helps. First and foremost, you know, a client client wants to feel important and special. So the loyalty to them, you know, staying true to your clients, whether you it takes a long time, or it doesn’t, you know, some deals are harder than others remain loyal to them, let them know that you’re there for them, let them know you understand your needs. They’ll appreciate that, too. You know, you don’t want to seem like Hey, I just want a quick buck. And I want to get out of here. I mean, even if it’s a deal you don’t want to do you’re not comfortable with you know, stay true to your client if you took on the responsibility. You know, finish it through the integrity you know, remain honest with them. Don’t don’t push a deal that in the back of your mind is not good for their best interest. I mean, we’re in real estate we know you know where the market might go or we know we might spot something wrong with the house or we might think hey, they’re overpaying and willing to you know, the integrity is huge for me I mean it’s important to building a relationship and building trust and you know, you don’t want to sell someone something that two years they’re gonna not feel they’re going to feel taken advantage of or not happy I mean that kind of falls on the broker so I believe in huge and integrity you know, shaking hands and being truthful and honest throughout energy is big you know, always being positive always been on top of it always been you know, optimistic. There’s ups and downs in real estates and in real estate and I think the clients can can feel your energy when you answer the phone be be happy be positive sound like you’re happy to hear from your client even if you’re having a bad day it’s not their problem you know, they everyone has their own problems always be treat people the way you want to be treated with your energy it’s huge it’s a sponge. Negotiations are huge for me it’s sport you know negotiating a good deal you know, getting the best absolute deal for your client the shortest amount of time for the highest dollar amount or you know, the best negotiation get them the best price dollar minute you want to provide good value for your clients in triumph, you know, being you know, happy celebrating with your client, letting them know that hey, we got a good deal. This is awesome. This is a good chapter in your life, whatever it may be, I mean, it’s, you know, the trophy of over the deal making of of what we’re doing. Sending your client you know, something a gift or thank you we’re taking them out for a drink after to celebrate or sending them a picture of, you know, to put in their place where Whatever it may be, just know and on a good note. So you put all those things together in depth that it really makes for a really solid real estate experience.

D.J. Paris 20:10
Well, I’d like to congratulate you. For number one, having a philosophy I think that is separates you just having something that you were able to, to speak about, you know, very easily and fluently, it also was essentially within your first year is incredibly, incredibly impressive and but it also separates Michael from, I don’t know, I’m gonna be generous and say, or I’m gonna be conservative and say probably 95% of the other realtors, it’s probably closer to 98% or 99%. So having a philosophy where he’s able to articulate and say, here’s what I do for my clients here are the, you know, the the, the six sort of tenets, my values, this is what I promised you is so incredibly powerful, obviously, you have to back it up and do it, as well. However, just being able to explain, this is why people choose to work with me, is going to just separate you and put you in a class, you know, very different from the average broker. And of course, all of those, those values well, when explained make perfect sense, right. So I wanted to congratulate you for even even thinking to have something like that. Right. And by the way, this is on his on his app properties website, he you know, he talks about it, and he just, you know, explained it in more detail here. And I did want to ask you about follow up after the after the sale or after the rental, how do you stay in touch with your, with your clients, obviously talking about triumph and you know, congratulating the win, and the sale is closed and you do something nice for them. Do you have a follow up strategy beyond that

Michael Mandile 21:46
I just nothing set in stone, I just I’ll send them a text here and there, how are you, you know, Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, you know, just just something small to the point, you know, sometimes your clients will become your friends, sometimes, you know, they’ll be your neighbor. So you’ll see them often. But the ones that are outside of that box, I mean, you you want to, you want to remind them that you’re still there that you know, they’re there, they’re still important to your life to your business. And, you know, just a quick text, a quick phone call a quick email, I think it goes a long way. So you know,

D.J. Paris 22:23
yeah, and to that, you know, these are people that if you’ve, if you’ve done the right thing for them, in your case, I’m sure you must always do because you’ve had such success so quickly. But for all brokers out there, these are the people that want you to succeed the most, right? The ones you’ve helped, and these are the ones that that if you do this great job as Michael clearly does, they reward you with remote and telling all their friends are telling some of their friends or at least one of their friends. And it’s it’s such a huge opportunity. That is it’s really important. And Michael basically said earlier is like every single transaction you have with them or every single piece of communication you have with them, you know really needs to be around their needs, getting them what they want. And, you know, again that that in and of itself separates you from from the majority of brokers I suspect. So uh, we I did want to ask you about either your wild goose chase and key story if you could tell us about that.

Michael Mandile 23:18
Sure. So sorry about that. Um Yeah, so the wild goose chase or so you know, the funniest point I think of my career is I mean it was actually recently we go to a property with a client a buyer and you know it’s winter here in Chicago it’s it’s very cold you get you get your instructions from them where how you’re going to access the property it’s higher is in the loop so we get there and you know we follow the instructions and sure enough there’s there’s no lockbox the car is in loading zone we’re freezing and it became it wasn’t funny at first but you know I get on the phone with the broker Oh go here oh there no lockbox go here she ended up forgetting where she put the lockbox of course so we finally found this lockbox I mean maybe 15 minutes later valleys I mean it was It wasn’t so much fun my client was like What what did I sign up for you know, and we get the lock back then it doesn’t open the codes not right Oh no. We really want to see this property so we then wait to get in you know she’s like well just get in the building and you know go upstairs the doors wide open once you get in you’re fine we get in the doors not open so finally we go back outside open up this lockbox with like our key, you know, it was like jammed and finally get in and the key doesn’t work to open the unit. I mean, at this point. At this point, we’re just cracking off. It was so funny is I guess you had to be there. But

D.J. Paris 24:51
did they end up buying that property or? No? Yeah, it’s like enough bad omens in one day. Move on to the next but it is it is. And again, I think, you know, that’s really interesting, really sort of, not unusual story, right? So like, you’ve been doing this long enough, you’ll have, you know, a story like that, if not many others. And I think the key is to is to keep laughing about it, you know, and while it’s happening, and also to have the empathy for these, you know, these buyers that are like, just wanting to come see this place, and you’re stressed, because you’re having to, you know, run around and everything’s not working. But, but it is, it is amazing that, you know, it’s a real test of like, Can I stay positive throughout this horrible experience?

Michael Mandile 25:40
And that’s, I’m sorry, go ahead.

D.J. Paris 25:42
No, no, no, I just, I think, like, it’s good to have those experiences, because it really tests your resolve of like, you know, Can I can I stay? Can I stay relatively calm? Or even my clients are super annoyed. And then of course, they don’t blame you for it. But it’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s tough nonetheless. And then tell us about the snake your snake story.

Michael Mandile 26:04
So we we were showing a house out in the suburbs to a client and you know, it was an older house completely remodeled. We walk inside and everything was off to a good start. Probably the strangest real estate experience in my life. And now we’re looking around and hey, there’s a basements check out the basement. So we go in the basement and it’s pitch black old house, you know, maybe from ninth early 1900s. And you walk down the stairs and starts to resemble a scary movie of sorts.

D.J. Paris 26:38
On like, an unfinished basement on that’s yes, it finished.

Michael Mandile 26:41
It’s unfinished. You walk down? No, like concrete stairs? No, no railing.

D.J. Paris 26:47
I’ve seen this movie.

Michael Mandile 26:50
And you can go on either side. So there’s no wall. I mean, you could go left or right. We get down there. And you know, half of the people that were with us, it was a husband and wife and the children that the wife and the children stayed upstairs, they didn’t want to come down, it’s just dark. So we finally find a light on a string. And as soon as we pull the light string, we see we’re in an empty, unfinished basement, we turn around, and there’s a huge glass enclosure. And inside this glass, glass enclosures a huge snake. Of course, it just, we ran out of there. And it was it was bizarre.

D.J. Paris 27:30
If we can all visualize the light, you know, being like on a string, one solitary light bulb with a pull string on it, and then you turn it on, and there’s a snake in an aquarium. Because who would want to? Who would who would want to put a snake up? You know, ups like everything most people would? Even though if they’re into snakes, they probably would? Well, maybe because they’re showing the house they moved to downstairs or something. But yeah, do you think that that would be mentioned at some point, because that would freak out 99% of anyone who walks through that house,

Michael Mandile 28:02
not the best of staging components, but

D.J. Paris 28:07
that’s when you have to have the come to Jesus conversation with the seller and say, I think we need to move this to another location. or lock it down somewhere where nobody can get to

Michael Mandile 28:18
put in the garage. That’s something but that wasn’t Yeah.

D.J. Paris 28:22
That’s really funny. Well, well, Michael, I really, really appreciate your time. And again, I want to stress as we kind of conclude this, this interview that 73 transactions in the first year is beyond impressive, obviously, Michael’s a super humble guy who, you know, and we’re like, Well, how do you build your business? He’s, you know, I just network and I do a good job. And, you know, and obviously, it’s it is all of those things and and probably a lot more, but this is a truly impressive, you know, broker and obviously big things ahead for Michael. And big things, as all have already happened. But if there are any buyers, sellers or renters that are out there that are interested in working with you what’s the best way they should reach you?

Michael Mandile 29:05
Let me carry on sharing my cell phone directly call text anytime. 847-322-8827 Or you can shoot me an email Michael at Chicago, Lux homes.com, which is my personal website that I work with.

D.J. Paris 29:20
Yeah, yeah. So that website again, is Chicago Lux, which is L UX. So Chicago, Lux homes.com is a place to to read about all things. Michael Mann de les. And so Michael, thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate your time.

Michael Mandile 29:37
Thank you for having me. Great, great talk. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

Auctioneer, investor, author, and top 1% producer Tim Gray joins us today to talk tax liens! As a real estate broker who saw a huge opportunity in tax lien investing while auctioneering, he has carved out a niche and encourages other brokers to check it out!

Purchase Tim’s book, No Redemption: Tax Lien Auctions, Evictions, and Lessons from the Foreclosure Crisis by clicking here

Timothy Gray can be reached at info@chicagolandauctions.com and 312-334-1300.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:14
Hello and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcast made by Chicago real estate agents for Chicago real estate agents. My name is DJ, I am your host. Welcome to the show. We have a great interview with Tim gray coming up in just a few. A few quick items before we get to Tim, our website so you can always listen to every episode we’ve ever done stream those episodes live on with keeping it real pod.com You can also contact us, let us know if Is there a broker that maybe it’s you or someone that you are mentored by or someone you look up to, that you think would be a really interesting interview, send us those examples through the website contact form. And you can also subscribe of course to our show via iTunes and Google Play there as well. Also a special thanks to Chicago real producers magazine, which I am a columnist for and write a monthly article based on some of the lessons learned from these podcast interviews. So thank you to Chicago real producers magazine. Unfortunately I can’t share the articles with you because the magazine is sent to the basically the top 1% same people that we interview on the show but appreciate the partnership there. So if you are one of those people who get the magazine you can flip through and look for my articles every month. All right on to our great interview with Tim gray.

All right, today on the show we have Tim gray. Want to read a little bit about Tim for those of you not familiar from this is from the National auctioneer Association. Tim Gray has authored a book entitled no redemption, which is the first book of its kind to explain not only the theories but the real life portraits of people who are affected by tax lien auctions. Tim has been an expert on tax liens for almost 20 years and it is time to share his story. Tim is also an auctioneer conducts real estate and benefit auctions throughout the Chicago land area. He has been a top producing broker for over 10 years. He is a top one percenter have sold 1000s of properties owns lots of properties, and author and we are really excited to have him on the show. So thank you, Tim, welcome to the show.

Tim Gray 2:40
Oh, thank you very much, DJ, it is a pleasure to talk to you. I’m a big fan of the podcast. I think it’s fantastic and happy to lend my two cents to it today.

D.J. Paris 2:48
Well, you you there’s a lot more than two cents that you have to offer. Because this is a particularly unique interview, at least for me and I I claim ignorance to almost all things real estate, which is unfortunate, but probably more true than not very humble. That well. It’s not falsely humble. I think it’s probably accurate. But anyway, let first of all, let’s talk about you know, your start in real estate and how you’ve moved, you know, in in a probably a much different path than a lot of traditional realtors.

Tim Gray 3:20
That’s true DJ, I basically have taken the road less traveled in the real estate world as an also just in my regular life, pretty much my entire life. And a lot of it was the process of elimination. I did so many jobs that I didn’t like, and that I was terrible at. And I worked in the film business right out of college for a few years. And it was a great learning experience. But I could tell that it wasn’t for me. So I think that as you do things you don’t like you start to go, I can’t do that. I definitely couldn’t be a doctor, I would pass out on my first day. Right? It couldn’t be a lawyer. So I realized that and I didn’t like film. So all of a sudden, I got introduced to real estate went to auction school, I became an auctioneer. They started doing the tongue twisters, how many dollars on and give it to get to you know, and we started figuring out how to do this. So we went in, I went to real estate school got my broker’s license became a real estate auctioneer, and pretty much haven’t looked back. I basically specialize in foreclosures and tax liens. My company that I started, we go to the tax sale, the Cook County tax sale and we buy tax liens, which in the period of three or four years will turn into real estate. So I found sort of a unique subsection of real estate and I’ve really just tried my hardest to get as good as I can at it. And that’s really been the passion.

D.J. Paris 4:41
And are you are you originally from this area or from somewhere else?

Tim Gray 4:44
Yeah, I’m from Chicago. So I know the area very well. I’ve seen the changes throughout my life and I lived I’ve lived in other places but I’m definitely a Chicago and

D.J. Paris 4:54
well let’s talk about tax liens. How did you it was it’s just a natural progression as being an auctioneer you saw these opportunities.

Tim Gray 5:01
There’s no question that when I attended my first auction, I was probably 1516 years old, my dad took me to an auction. And that was the moment where I was like, I want to be an auctioneer. And then through that, I got into the tax sale world, I went to the Skaven, the Cook County scavenger sale, which you only need $250 to buy a piece of property. And that was in my price range at the time. And so I was able to buy some vacant lots that on the west side of Chicago, and for very little money, and held them for a period of a couple years. And of them, most of them paid off. And I collected my money back with some interest, but a few of them did not. And I was able to go and get deeds, and sell them to people that built homes on them. And the light bulb went off in my head. And you know, wisely I took that those profits and reinvested it and continued to sort of build the snowball up. And it’s amazing. When I see the progression of how it’s just been hasn’t always been a straight line. It certainly hasn’t been a rocket ship. I’ve had ups and downs like everyone else. But when you look back on it over a course of 10 or more years, 15 years, it is definitely a great feeling to have, you know, paved a nice business model that works in any economy.

D.J. Paris 6:21
Absolutely. And we should also plug your website which is Chicago land auctions.com Yes, thank you visit Chicagoland auctions.com And you can you can learn more about timber Tim, let’s let’s get into so we have 1000s of listeners, most of them here in the Chicagoland area. Almost all of them brokers probably are as ignorant or hopefully not as ignorant as I am with respect to auctions and tax liens. Can you give us a little primer on why broker should care and what opportunities they might might be missing out

Tim Gray 6:55
on? Sure. And I do think that it’s sort of something no one really wants to talk about, or think about sometimes it shows up in the political arena with property taxes. But the reality is, we just paid off the first installment of 2017, which was due not long ago. And on that tax bill. It says Maria Pappas, the Treasurer writes the amount of the state deficiency in budget. And it’s $68 billion, when you see it, and she put it on there to try to ease the blow of the tax bill, you know, that when you see your tax bill, which has gone up, you actually see the condition of the state. And we’re in a we’re in a you don’t need to even watch much TV to realize that we have some problems we need to work out of at the state level. And so the state level funds the county level, and so the county taxes, the property taxes that we all pay, I can’t even begin to tell you how vital it is. And when part of it isn’t paid, that makes that $68 billion, even worse. So you have a situation where collecting the property taxes is actually most important when you have a county that is struggling with money, because we would have potholes fixed, and the schools wouldn’t be closing down because they’re all based on property tax money. So the county tax sale is only once a year. And the treasurer, it takes everyone who didn’t pay. And last use it all up and says we’re going to auction it all off within four days. And it’s done that way to give people an incentive to pay, you don’t want to get involved in the process. So there’s a deadline, a line in the sand, you have to pay it or there’s a tax sale. And if there is a tax sale, you have a period of time to pay it off with interest. So someone like myself will go to the tax sale and buy the tax lien. And I’m actually giving the county the money that they needed. So I’m filling that receivable. And then the homeowner gets about three years to pay that money back to me with interest. And if they do, it’s a handshake, and it’s a win win for everyone. If they don’t, that’s when they would lose the property. And so that’s when it becomes as an investor, it becomes very interesting business because it’s a win win. If you do it correctly, you’re either gonna get paid out with interest, or you’re gonna get the property. And so that’s kind of the 30,000 foot view of a tax sale.

D.J. Paris 9:15
And what percentage of the time in the deals you do, are the owners able to pay? Or are you able to reclaim?

Tim Gray 9:23
That’s a great question. They pay off nine times out of 10. So it’s, it’s amazing. If you bought 10 tax liens, you’re gonna maybe get one, you probably won’t, you’d have to buy like 100 of them to get 10. And so basically 90, they almost all pay off. And so it’s a little bit of a business model where you’re setting up how much you’re gonna get in return and make sure that that’s satisfactory to you for the area and the risks that you’re taking. And then on the backside, you have to know the value of the property

D.J. Paris 9:54
and what you know what type of return interest return. And again, obviously They can vary, I’m sure. But what is there any general guidelines to what? Somebody who’s looking to invest in in these types of opportunities? Yeah, that’s

Tim Gray 10:07
another great question, DJ. Because if you’re in the if there’s a lien in the Trump Tower, and say, the ad and floor, and that actually happened, we bought, I think it was like at GE, in the Trump Tower, and the that went at 0%. There were 50 bidders bid, sure, make sure to them, we’re going to take it at no interest, because we want that chance that Donald doesn’t redeem. And if he doesn’t redeem, we’re going to get this 80th floor condo, it’s worth maybe a million dollars or whatever in our profit. But the truth matters that did redeem, so the lowest is 0%. And the best stuff goes at zero. But then there’s the other side of town. And there’s some boarded up commercial property, there was a there was a car dealership and park for us. It was like $200,000 a year in taxes. And I passed on it wisely. But someone bought that at 18% interest. So if you get down to the stuff where no one really wants, the the highest is 18%, the lowest zero. And somewhere in the middle is where you try to make it work. But again, there are a lot of bitters, it’s a very competitive tax sale, it’s all electronic. So you don’t really know where anyone is at. You kind of have to use algorithms, and we have really good computer people that are far better at it than I am to help me get a good bidding system. So I can stay competitive. It’s it’s actually, it’s sort of like a stockbroker, a futures trader, basically.

D.J. Paris 11:34
Yeah. And it’s like futures, it’s non correlated, necessarily to the rest of the stock market. Right. So it’s, it’s, it’s particularly interesting. And also, it’s such a, you know, this is so interesting. So I always think about from our listeners perspective, so they’re brokers, they are putting, you know, we’ve done a lot of episodes about working with investors. And this is an even a more hyper focused and unique conversation about a very specific type of investment, which yields a pretty nice return or attractive return to investors, you know, a three year return in most cases, right. Which I imagine, you know, meeting in the middle is a probably a decent number to be able to present. Do you find that there are a lot of brokers in this space? Or is it is obviously, you mentioned a lot of competition. But what do you think the average? You know, are there a lot of brokers that are just missing out on this stuff?

Tim Gray 12:31
I do, I think, Well, I think that at the tax sale level, it really is very difficult. It’s a government tax sale, you have to have a lot of money upfront. And then you have to really cross your t’s and dot your i’s. But at the secondary level, the properties that we get, we buy, say 1000s of them a year, and we get hundreds of properties a year. So as a broker, if it were me investing, and I had a client or myself, say $300,000, you could buy one house, on the north side, maybe. Or you could buy 10 homes on the south side. And so for me, I always looked at as a value being a value investor. And I do think that there are a lot of brokers that are all chasing after that one same home run in Wrigleyville, or in Logan Square right now or in Pilsen. But the truth of the matter is, you could go down right now to Calumet City, you can go to Doulton, there’s parts of the city of Chicago, where you can buy a house for $10,000. In my book, I have examples of homes that sold for $1. And they paid the agent $1,200 in commission. I mean, what a deal is that who could stay alive, if you weren’t a big bank, who could possibly do that you’re paying, you’re selling the home for $1 and you’re paying out all this commission. And so there are great deals now, those homes that were sold for $1 They weren’t the most beautiful homes you’ve ever seen. But in my world I look at I actually see nothing but beauty in a $1 home. I mean, even if you’re there’s siding on it, you’ve you’ve got to say to yourself, there’s this is an opportunity for an upside and that’s you know, most financial people will tell you that the the new beginner investor will buy a stock at the wrong time and sell it at the wrong time. So right now your apples doing great, I’m gonna buy Apple and then next thing you know, the iPhone start to explode, the stock takes goes down into the gutter and you sell it. And so I’m always of the mindset and I try to tell the other brokers flip that philosophy and buy Apple after all those phones caught on fire and I’m gonna Of course I haven’t but that’s the Buying Opportunity. And then when it’s never been higher and and everyone’s touting the record profits, then you sell it. So that’s how I’ve always looked at and if you go down into some of the properties that I look at, I buy and sell, they’re all sold as is they’re all sold very cheap under market and we have a lot of of interest but I have to say this morning alone, I got five or six calls from people who found me on Zillow or realtor.com And they said, Hey Tim, can you Come down to Homewood and show me this house, you know, and so I constantly am saying, Please hire a local broker, why wouldn’t you hire a local broker? And so there really are a lot of opportunities for brokers to reach people who are looking for these homes, I realized that that $1,000 commission or 3%, of $25,000, isn’t the type of thing that’s going to get you to your vacation next winter. But you know, our philosophy here is singles win ballgames you keep hitting singles up the middle, you’ll win every single game that you have. And so that’s sort of how I present our business and our real estate.

D.J. Paris 15:38
I think that is really well said, and it’s so interesting that there’s always, you know, seemed we seem to uncover on the show, thankfully, people like yourself are generous enough for their time to express their own take on it and their own niche. And you certainly have, have done that very effectively. Let’s talk about your book, no redemption, because it’s particularly timely. Yes. i with respect to the the auction coming up in May, can you talk a little bit? First of all, where can people find and buy the

Tim Gray 16:10
book? Yeah, it’s on Amazon, or there’s a link on our website as well. But if you go to Amazon and type in no redemption, or Tim gray tax liens, or any keyword, it should come up. And there’s an ebook there. It’s like five bucks, and anyone who’s interested in tax sales, this is not an academic book that’s going to throw a bunch of numbers and legal stuff that you This is my real idea. This is actually what happened over the last 15 years, there’s nothing I mean, the editor took out probably some of the better stories in the book, as you can imagine. But what’s in here absolutely is true, there’s photographs to prove it. And basically, if you if you look at it, you will see a business that has a ton of opportunity, and a number of headaches. And so my idea with the book, my competitors would never, ever offer any advice as to how to do this. And quite frankly, the old school foreclosure tax buyers, they were really cruel. And there’s kind of a new, I’m trying my hardest to change that we’re instead of being the tax bill collector, knocking at your door in a rude way. We are very motivational for people, if we buy your tax lien, we will go to your house, knock on your door in a polite way and say, Hey, realize you’re behind. You have two years, what can we do here to get control the situation before it becomes so expensive, you can’t afford it, and you’ll lose your house. And that type of motivational tactic and not just the aggressive debt collector tactic, really, it pays off in spades for us. And so we’re able to develop a rapport with people. And you’ll see that in the book that, you know, some of the hardest moments of a person’s life would be losing a home that they grew up in, that their parents or grandparents paid for, for the 3040 years, and they all pass away and leave it to four kids who lose it. And for years to taxes, no one pays a single bill. And everyone, you know, is moved throughout the United States. And, and to me, that’s really sad. And so you say to yourself, the really responsible way to handle it is to handle it with compassion, and try to get out in front of the situation. So that that people are not incredibly upset and think that you’ve mistreated the situation. And so that’s what we do, we really take a lot of pride in how we do the work. It’s the passion of our job is in taking a difficult job and doing a really good job of it, you know, and it’s easy, I play music. So it’s easy to say like, I’d rather play music, that’s my passion. But at the end of the day, the passion is doing something really well. And I would encourage brokers no matter what you’re doing, and when you’re doing it, you probably would rather be somewhere else. I mean, I’d rather be on a golf course most days. But if you could just take what you’re doing, and take as much pride in doing a great job as possible. I think you will always succeed. It’s very rarely that someone would let you go or not hire you or promote you, because you didn’t do the best job that you could.

D.J. Paris 19:08
Well, I certainly could not have put that better. And I couldn’t agree more

Tim Gray 19:12
because you do a great job DJ, that’s why take no one.

D.J. Paris 19:16
That’s very, that’s very serving to me. But but the but the reality of it is is I found that to be very consistent that you know, what you just so eloquently put has been said either directly or indirectly by many of the other people almost all if not all of the other guests on the show over time as these top one percenters in particular, of course, are excellent at what they do. They work very hard, very professional. And I also want to go back to a point about the generosity that you very quickly and briefly mentioned, which I think is not to be overstated, is that there are no secrets or there are secrets. Maybe there’s worth sharing, and you’re certain You know, sharing some of the secret sauce today and we couldn’t be more appreciative of that. I mean, there’s, you know, Tim is doing this, just being a nice person, and we do appreciate it. And, and so as with all the other guests we have, and I think that is been a very unique and consistent quality. I met a woman I was on vacation last week in Costa Rica of all places, and I met a woman. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Brian Buffini training system? I’m not but yeah, he’s so he’s basically the largest independent training center or real estate training program in the countries out of San Diego anyway. So just so happens, this woman sitting next to me she is we’re on an excursion and ATV tour, and we’re actually on the way back from driving ATVs through the rainforest. And I’m we’re dirty and gross. And I’m sitting in this van shuttling us back to the hotel, and the woman next to me says, What do you do and where are you from? And she’s from Atlanta, and she’s a realtor. And I said, Oh, that’s funny. I basically recruit realtors. But I always say that because people might ask me, what’s the real estate market like in Chicago? And usually I don’t have a great answer for that. But I said, she said, Oh, well, you know, I do you know, Brian Buffini is coming to Chicago, and she’s a big Brian Buffini fan. And she uses them in our coaching. And she is and so we got to talking. She’s 72 years old. She does 12 transactions a year averages 20 million in production. Pretty, pretty decent numbers for for traditional real estate broker I thought, and she and she and I said, Oh, well, you know, maybe you’d like to be on the show in the future, because we don’t normally have people outside Chicago, but hey, why not? Right? And she said, Oh, I’d love to but but one thing she said bringing it back to you is she she said, You know, I just I treat this like a real job. And I have my niche. And my niche is I you know, with whatever suburb of Atlanta she lives in, she’s like, I know it better than everyone. And it wasn’t even better than any everyone. She didn’t say it quite that way. But that was what she meant. And she said, You know, I treat this like a job. And I’m I do such a great job that I only have to do 20 transactions a year to hit my goals. And, you know, as a result of that, and she said, I’d love to share exactly what I do every day. She’s like, it’s not going to sound very exciting, right? But, but it never does. But it’s it’s always that that hard work.

Tim Gray 22:25
I mean, that’s why I put some of these pictures in the book of I have a couple bathroom pictures, that you literally look at the book and you will ask yourself, Do I really want to buy foreclosures? This right? Because it’s I mean, it’s pretty hair raising, I’ll be honest with you, but again, when you see the flip side of it, that someone’s gonna buy it, rehab it and live in that home and maybe raise their kids and their kids and do the same thing where they’re the grandparents, parents that took out the mortgage 50 years ago and handed it down. That’s a great feeling. And there aren’t, even if you’re a big investor buying 100 properties. It’s not that many it’s big, every single property is a big purchase. And for most people, I bought my home over a decade ago that was looking back on it a huge purchase, I would have felt a ton of pressure, if I knew I was going to hang on to it that long. A lot of people buy homes. And so we’re in a business where we have to it’s not like a car that people are leasing for a couple years. This is a big purchase for everyone. I think we should all feel very lucky and very blessed to be able to work and have that result for someone. And I get a lot of those calls from people who have made really good money off of our the properties they bought from me. And I always say at least somebody’s making money off of this.

D.J. Paris 23:37
Well, yeah, and I think you’re absolutely and I think from a broker’s perspective, what an amazing opportunity to start to learn about tax liens and to be able to then offer those to investors as another opportunity. I imagine. I don’t I don’t know what percentage of brokers don’t understand or really, you know, bring these kinds of opportunities to their investors or their clients. But it’s got to be in the 90 percentile, right?

Tim Gray 24:03
There’s no like question on the realtor exam about tax liens. There’s nothing in doing education that’s ever come up. No one ever really talks about it. And so but the truth of the matter is, they’re all open to the public. Anyone can bid anyone can buy, and anyone can buy from me, or any other foreclosure tax buyer. It’s yeah,

D.J. Paris 24:22
let’s talk about that. How if someone’s interested in learning more, whether they’re a broker who wants to sort of bone up on the skill on the skills or even just a consumer, where should they go? What should they do?

Tim Gray 24:35
Well, if they want to buy real estate on the back end of the tax sale, then simply contact myself or there’s a number of other people that do Foreclosures And Distressed property. If they’re looking to get into the tax sale itself. A lot of it is public information. It’s a little harder to read, but it’s it’s a statewide statute. Every county in Illinois has to have a tax sale. The rules are laid right out They’re not that easy to read, but they’re right out there. And then you can basically register for a county tax sale, you buy the list of delinquent properties, you do your homework, and you can go in and actually bid on it. There are a lot of pitfalls to it. It doesn’t make the best part time job in the world. There’s a ton of books when I wrote my book that one of the reasons that I wanted to write it is because every book on tax liens was like an advertisement from someone who had never really bought a tax lien. And it was basically just just a snake oil salesman writing a book. And I was I buy them all, and I would read them and just but this isn’t the way that the business is, and there are touting all these huge interest gains you can get and how you can quit your job and all that. But the fact of the matter is, is that this is a full time job, and you’re dealing with people possibly losing their homes, and I don’t think you can really do it, doing it part time. Because what happens is, life catches up to get busy, and you forget a deadline, and every one of your tax liens you lose money on you’ll never, you only get one chance to get it right. And that’s because the penalty is so severe if they don’t pay, but if you don’t do your part, as a taxpayer, you will lose your investment. So a lot of people just depending on their risk assessment, their comfort level, they’ll say, Tim, I don’t want to go to the sale tax sale and wait three years for the property, I want to buy one of these properties today. And my average sale price is you know, 25 to $50,000, which is not the end of the world and people are using now it’s fantastic with these companies that are offering rehab loans and hard money, people are able to do these projects again and get these communities revitalized, that they weren’t able to do for the last 10 years. And it really is great to see it.

D.J. Paris 26:45
Wonderful. Well, let’s plug your book once again, which is called no redemption. So you can find that on Amazon again, search for no redemption. Tim Gray is the author and our guest today. Tim, thank you. So also visit Tim’s website, Chicago land auctions.com. And a lot of great information there about Tim and really appreciate your time today. Tim, this was very, very interesting. And I know our listeners would have loved it, you know, and I just got an education myself. So I appreciate that.

Tim Gray 27:24
Well, I’ll see you at the tax sale and DJ right. I’ll be back next to me bidding. Yeah, I encourage any of the brokers just reach out anytime they want to say hi, I’m downtown in here on LaSalle Street and definitely looking to network and help other people grow. It’s a win win win. We all do business together.

D.J. Paris 27:41
And what’s the best way someone can reach out to you? Yeah, the

Tim Gray 27:44
website, or I mean, I’m on LinkedIn as Tim Gray. The website Chicagoland auctions. You could send me an email say hello. I’d love to hear from you.

D.J. Paris 27:55
Awesome. Well, thanks, Tim. We appreciate you being on the show.

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Andrew Holmes understands real estate investing. After 13 years as a traditional broker he switched to investments and has focused there ever since. In his career he has personally flipped 600 homes and currently has a buy-and-hold portfolio of 180 properties. Three years ago he found ChicagoREIA which is now the largest real estate investment association in the country with over 5000 members. ChicagoREIA brings together the industry’s leading investment experts and teaches members strategies of top investors like Andrew.

Keeping it Real Podcast listeners will receive $10 off ChicagoREIA’s upcoming three day summit in Skokie. Click here for more details!

Andrew Holmes can be reached at 630-635-5996 and info@chicagoreia.org.

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Transcript

D.J. Paris 0:15
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real. The only podcasts made by Chicago real estate brokers for Chicago real estate brokers. My name is DJ Paris, I am your host through the show. And first of all, I wanted to say continued Thank you, which we do the beginning of most of our shows, but we wouldn’t be here for if it wasn’t for you listening. So our numbers keep going up. And we appreciate that, which means you’re most likely telling a friend because we’re not doing any marketing. So we appreciate that. And if you have anyone else other brokers that you think might find these kinds of conversations interesting and helpful, please pass this along. We really appreciate it helps keep us going. And today we have a really great conversation interview with Andrew Holmes of Chicago Real Estate Investors Association, which you can find at Chicago, ria.org, Chicago are eia.org. And he has a three day seminar seminar coming up, which is called cash flow to freedom, he’ll be talking about it in the upcoming interview in just a few moments. But as a keeping it real podcast listener, you get $10 off the admission price, it’s already very low, but you get an extra $10 off. So you can learn more about this and sign up at Chicago ria.org. I’ll put the link as well in the notes. So thanks again for continuing to listen to and continuing to support our show, tell a friend, tell every broker you know about us, and let us know who else we should be talking to on this podcast we have in the next week or so we have new podcasts with Kerry McCormick, Eric Workman, and a few others as well. So thank you again and onto our interview.

Today on the show, we have Andrew Holmes from Chicago Real Estate Investors Association. Andrew got into real estate at the age of 20 when he was in college, and he ended up selling real estate until the age of 33. And he was solely focused on working with sellers. So he’s basically a listing agent, and he still had his license but in 2008 made the decision to start investing full time. And as of today, he and his business partner have a investment portfolio of 180 single family homes and, and two to four flats. Over the past 10 years. He and his partner have done over 600 flips. And he started three companies along the way, one of which is Chicago real estate investment investor association with over 5000 members in three years, by the way, which is an impressive, impressive growth there. It’s the largest real estate investors association in the country. So congrats to him there. Also, he has two other companies Chicago flipping which is about of course flipping homes, and Chicago cashflow, which is his rental division for his properties. His message to all agents is that, hey, we are in the business of helping others buy a home and invest in their futures. And we as brokers should be doing that for ourselves. He has some we’re gonna be talking about some of his philosophies and practices. And about five years ago, he also started a radio show on real radio, not these dumb podcasts like mine. But he’s I’m 560 am called the answer. And he’s all about empowering investors and agents about how to build their wealth through real estate. So we are so grateful to have Andrew Holmes. So welcome, Andrew.

Andrew Holmes 3:41
Thank you, DJ. Glad to be here.

D.J. Paris 3:43
Well, thanks. Thanks for taking time out of your day. And tell us a little bit about and I mentioned a bit of your journey there. And that’s quite a journey. Very impressive. Tell us a little bit about how you got started.

Andrew Holmes 3:57
So in college, you know, I was always the kid that all my friends went out and got drunk, and I went out with them. And I was counting the number of people in the bar trying to figure out how much the bar was making. It was I was always kind of since I was a kid. That’s just how my brain work. My college days, I was trying to figure out, how do I become rich? I mean, really, they asked me to pick a career. I’m like, well, whatever makes the most money, that’s what I’m going to do. And that was kind of a tough one for the counselor to he’s like, but what are you passionate about? Well, making money because I’m really broke. So I don’t want to be here. So that was kind of the you know, I didn’t know what exactly entrepreneur at the time meant, but sure, apparently that somewhere came in built.

D.J. Paris 4:44
And and so you really started in at the age of 20. What was that like getting your license that early?

Andrew Holmes 4:50
And I was like I went to this really small school and there were a couple of people who drove really nice cars. And when you’re 1920 years old, a nice car seems Like someone who is well off, and some are who were through the grapevine I heard that they owned a lot of Earth’s real estate. And I used to check out a lot of books, blah, blah, blah. So I’m like, well, that must be the common thread. And really, I thought I was going to get a real estate license, I was going to be a successful investor. And that would be a great summer job and supposedly make so much money that I would be set for the rest of the year. You know how that story starts. So that was I mean, I was so naive that, as you can imagine, the first two three years were rough to say the least, you know, so?

D.J. Paris 5:35
Oh, sure. Yeah. How, you know, as as a young agent, how did you? How did you drum up business I imagined, it’s, you know, none of your friends are buying, buying and selling at that age, I imagine.

Andrew Holmes 5:45
At the time, I was in a really small town about the population, I think was about 30,000 people. And I mean, somewhere I got hold of some, like old cassette tapes. And they said, you should just cold call people. Sure. And I mean, I used to be so nervous calling for sale by owners expired listings, is to forget my own name. So I used to kind of sweat bullets. I had no idea. And I mean, I remember how painful it was, but I didn’t want to. So my parents happened to live in India. And when I left there, I had told them that, you know, one day, guys, I’m gonna be a multimillionaire, and they happen to be both the surgeons, and so I told them, I’m going to show you guys and, you know, I did not one thing I never wanted to do was go back to my parents, and say, I failed. And so it didn’t matter what happened. I had to make it. And so for 234 years, I really didn’t communicate with them much. Because I didn’t know what to tell them that I quit college, and I’m trying this whole real estate thing. And I mean, literally, I built my whole business on literally calling for sale by owners expired listings, and canceled listings.

D.J. Paris 6:55
And we should we should like not move on quite yet from from that statement, because that is it’s probably the hardest cold call there is in real estate, I imagine. And certainly not for the faint of heart. You’re calling people who either have have had bad experiences with realtors, or are just I don’t want to pay those Commission’s and basically trying to turn those into clients. And those are Boy, that is a real trial by fire. But I suspect if you could make those calls. After that

Andrew Holmes 7:24
just interesting. It’s what happened was literally I mean, what happens is initially when you call people do obviously hang up on you because you don’t know what you’re saying. And literally you come to a point where once they know you’re truly there to help them. Yeah, and serve their needs. I used to call people 1015 times, and literally and they’re like Andrew, you realize you called us a week ago. And like guys, I’m not calling to ask for your listing. But if you do think of an agent, I want to make sure that if I’m willing to work this hard now, how hard do you think I’m going to work when you actually do put me to work. And literally they used to call me and go you know something you’ve been so damn persistent, that my sister in law is an agent, but she will never work as hard as you do. And, and it was literally that was my secret was that I was like, just not a bad dream, but a good dream that just would not go away. And I was persistent. If they couldn’t sell it out, literally go tell them what to do to get their home sold. And what I figured out was after a while people figure out that you’re genuine about what you’re trying to do. And that catches on and it was first people would look at you like strange. They’re like, What is wrong with you? Why would you help us? I’m like, Guys, it’s simple. If you sell it yourself, fantastic. We should have asked if you don’t just please remember that I’m here. And a lot of times people would this is, you know, in the 90s and the 2000 or two up to 2000 678. So obviously a lot of people did succeed, kind of selling it themselves or do whatever they did. But I mean, I was I moved to Chicago literally in 2002. And starting in 2002. At a time, I used to always carry 40 to 50 listings at a time. And that’s all I did. I think I had maybe 10 or 12 buyer controlled transactions. And that was it. And every single thing was pure logistics.

D.J. Paris 9:14
Wow. That is and there are so many brokers and I was mentioned to you offline, we have 1000s of listeners, you know, all of which I assume are brokers and they would kill to have that number of listings. But they what they probably wouldn’t do is make those kinds of calls. And so I really applaud you for oftentimes when we talk to top producers on the show, and we say what you know, what did you What do you do so differently? They always say generally, it’s almost always it’s not really anything different. It’s just they’re willing to make those types of phone calls and or whatever that particular activity was. It’s it’s always kind of like I call it like those those types of things like cold calling expireds and for sale by owners. They’re really I kind of call them like the push ups of real estate. They’re like it’s a really simple exercise, it’s not easy, but it’s a really good idea. But it’s one that we all go, Yeah, I should do more push ups, and nobody very few of us ever do them. So I applaud you for doing that. And as a result, Boy, that’s a pretty impressive, you know, start with, you know, that many number of listings. So then what made the shift from that into investment?

Andrew Holmes 10:21
You know, so what happened was this, I had seen my parents, like I think mentioned, when we got started, both of my parents fortunately, did very well for themselves started with kind of nothing but got a very good education. My dad happens to be able to pick surgery, my mom was OB GYN, gynecologist, and it’s the old school in a way of thinking you have to study hard work hard to make something of yourself. And it did. I mean, they have a lot of recognition, they’re very well, you know, all the things that kind of come with being a very successful surgeons, for me, what I always bothered me was this, that I had friends whose parents had way more than we did. And yet, they didn’t have the level of education. They didn’t write as many hours. But the difference between them and my parents was my parents were always running on a treadmill. Now, it was a very fancy treadmill, mind you. Or if you’re a gynecologist, OB GYN, you’re it’s a very fancy treadmill, Georgia problem still is that they have to show up to get paid. Yeah, they’re, they’re trading hours for dollars, for sure. Right. And what I realized was at real estate, I mean, we’re like purebred athletes, if you’re, if you want to perform at a high level in real estate sales, you have to grind it out. I mean, I wish, at least I don’t know. I mean, I’ve always looked at a lot of top producers, they don’t overthink things, but they have something they have very good at due diligence in terms of follow ups, as they keep, in fact, I mean, they go from I mean, in my business change, going from 100%, cold calling to, you know, to 80% to 60% to 40%. Because you start calling the people, you know, after a while, you don’t have to do as many cold calls to produce way more results. But still, January 1, or December 31. Christmas time was a very painful time for me, because even though I had done well for the year, and I was one of those people who wouldn’t spend money, and put as much money in stock, stock and away as much as possible, but still, I was not sure if I could repeat that performance the year over, right, you know, the next year, the next year, because the calendar gets reset. And, and that’s the reason I was I always had this thing in my mind that one day, when the market is right, I’m gonna jump in. And that day came January 14 2008. I mean, that was literally the date. So Wow.

D.J. Paris 12:46
And and what, how did you start to learn about investing? Was it just information you picked up along the way? Did you read books? Did you tend

Andrew Holmes 12:54
to read books, I went to a lot of different kinds of meetings. And a lot of clients, I lost a lot of clients, because I tried to tell them what I believed, which was don’t buy stuff without cash flow. Sure, and buy things and hope to go up. You know, I mean, I pray all the time to get taller, it doesn’t seem to happen. It’s I’m still short, I mean, you know, appreciation obviously happens over a period of time. But you can’t predict build a predictable business on it. And what I saw people doing from 2000, in 9899, and 2001, all the way through six was they were buying buildings where they were losing money. And the idea was, well, we can lose money for two, three years, but it’ll be worth two or three times as much. And we can get rich, and they got caught with it. And I saw that. And I saw it as I mean, I had the front row seat, because sure some of those were my clients and I sold them the property. And I sold the property again, when it went into short sale. I mean, it’s sad, but it’s and for the first time I realized, you know, that there’s something happening, and it’s right in front of me. And if I don’t get on the field, I’m going to miss this game. And so that was kind of my thing. And it was scary. I mean, it was very scary in 2008 to be jumping into real estate sales when everybody was losing their shirt.

D.J. Paris 14:18
Yeah, yeah, I imagine it was it was scary. It’s funny I’ve heard by more than one person more than a few who have said never think of your primary residence as even an asset much less than investment unless there’s there is cashflow which probably there isn’t if it’s just a primary residence, but like they said don’t even put it on your asset column because it really it costs you money. It’s an asset on the day you sell it. But also you have to live somewhere to so likely and certainly don’t don’t think of it as an investment and you know, it’s anything it’s going to suck money out of you year, you know, month a month over month. But that is a really, really, really intelligent thought. ought to, to only want to have, you know, assets that that make money for you on a, you know, residual income basis, which is obviously what you get into so as as you bought your first property in 2008, then sort of how did you?

Andrew Holmes 15:12
How did you know what to happen was, it’s like, again, sometimes, you know, will you shoot for something, and you kind of miss the target yet it’s taking you somewhere. So what I did was, I had a great treadmill, which was selling real estate, and it was, I mean, I was very blessed, that after a lot of struggle, I did figure out my niche. And it’s very, very rewarding. I mean, I don’t know, any other profession where you don’t have to have a college degree, you have to kind of put your head down and go to work. And you can make, you know, 5060 100 200 400 500,000 bucks, a million bucks, literally. And it’s, it’s so I always feel very blessed that I didn’t pick real estate, real estate picked me, that’s how I feel about it. But what happened was, you know, I got off one treadmill, which was sales, and I got on a more stressful treadmill, which was doing flips, so 1008, through 2009, and 10, all I did was just pure flips. So I buy a house rehab, get it rehabbed and resell the property. And when I was a listing agent, I only listed properties less than 450. Because I was in the Schomburg market, surrounding areas. So I always wanted bread and butter properties and never wanted a big house to list because the turnover was an issue. So that’s what I did in terms of flips, that I dropped down the price and the median price range. So I was buying properties at, you know, 100,000 or 50,000, flipping them at 250 300. And I just did a heck of a lot of it. And then I finally realized that I had gotten out of one treadmill, and gotten on another treadmill. Now, if it rains four inches outside, now I don’t have to worry about my customers or clients house, I have to worry about my profit. It’s very true. And so it creates a different level of stress. And finally, I had a friend of mine or somebody who I have respected immensely for a long period of time. And what he said is because I was asking him kind of the lifestyle, I looked at, well how he lived. And I’m like, How is this possible? He’s like, Well, back in the SNL crisis days in the 80s, he had bought quite a few houses in California, about 80 or so houses, and he had paid all of them off. And he’s like, you realize, every single day, the tenants go to work, and they read on a treadmill, they run on a treadmill, so I don’t have to write. And that’s the first time when it struck me. I’m like, instead of selling some of these properties, how about if I flip two properties, and keep one, flip two and keep one and so I started that process, which was I would flip to which was kind of money to live on and invest some of it in a rental property. And then as the kind of stage started growing over time, I could keep three rentals only flip one then keep for rentals, only flip one. And that just equation over the years has obviously kind of grown so.

D.J. Paris 18:12
And with your buy and hold properties. Do you focus in one particular geographic area? Are you sort of looking all over? Or do you kind of keep it localized?

Andrew Holmes 18:22
So I started buying basically, for people who are familiar with Schumacher, from Chicago area sure around Chombo. Market Schomburg I consider as a a market economically. So because the houses are expensive, so the market right next to it, which is going to be a more bread and butter market economically, you get relatively good rents, stable long term tenants, we don’t rent to anybody less than two years. So minimum two year rentals, if not three, and four. So it’s impressive. Yeah. So I mean, that’s just that’s kind of the philosophy is that if you live in our property for five or six years, we’ll send you on a vacation for your entire family anywhere in the world. As long as you live there six years. Wow. Because they’ve paid down my property. What’s your results? That’s wonderful. You know, so if we can give them a reward of for $5,000. And okay. So, right. Philosophy has been is buy the property, rehab the property, rent the property, refinance, the amount of money that you invested in the property, and every month, you have four to $500 net cash flow, after all expenses.

D.J. Paris 19:29
Yeah, my boss has a very similar philosophy. He, he owns, I don’t know 2025 properties, and has that same philosophy. He just He goes, I want I he wants to net 1000 every month and so that’s his goal. But if it’s 500 He’ll he’ll do it. But yeah, he he always, you know, is able to figure it out. I think that that makes a ton of sense it also to when you’re working with these tenants who are signing multi year leases, you probably probably I mean maybe maybe this isn’t true, but I would assume they probably treat the property Be a bit better, since they know they’re gonna be there for a period.

Andrew Holmes 20:02
And we were very, I mean, we’re fair to people. But we’re equally tough with everybody in terms of that we don’t want. We want good tenants, we want people who will take pride, because we provide a nice clean home for them. And we are prompt in terms of repairs. And so but we’re rigorous in terms of how we do all the checks in terms. So most people who basically, you know, don’t meet our standards, we’re not going to we run it like a business. I mean, that’s the difference with how we run that business is that this is a business and we pay attention to that business. So and the philosophy kind of what started was that we were talking about 257. So my goal initially, was in two years, I wanted to own five houses. And I wanted to get them paid off as quickly as possible. Because I, we take that, but I don’t like long term debt, because to me, it’s just a noose around your neck. So what my philosophy is that in two years, any person normal person can buy can learn how to buy five houses. And if they buy it with the right numbers, about four of them will get paid off completely in seven years, maybe not the fifth, depends on how aggressive you are with your payments, but you use all the cash flow to pay the property off, because there’s a basic philosophy in real estate that I believe and that is that if you take care of real estate for the first five years, real estate will take care of you for the rest of your life. Right. But the first five years are critical.

D.J. Paris 21:36
Yeah, wow. I absolutely, absolutely agree. And, you know, that brings us into your your association, which is the Chicago Real Estate Investors Association. And this is really important because it because I know you started about three years ago, and it’s funny that that we’re talking about this, because I noticed that there really there was one other group that I was familiar with. And I think this is even before your group founded. And they were way out in the western suburbs, and I don’t, you know, they had a pretty sizable group. But But there really was, was a wasn’t any other cohesive group. And I said, somebody’s gonna come along and build a really impressive investor Association. And you’ve done that. Can you talk a little bit about about year this? Chicago, Rei?

Andrew Holmes 22:23
Yeah, so So basically, kind of how that started was that I went to other groups, I attended the meetings, and it’s like, you know, hiring a coach or hiring a trainer at the gym, that doesn’t kind of follow what he preaches. And that’s what I saw with a lot of these groups that they people talked a great game, they would never share any information. And but they didn’t have the results to kind of prove what they said that they were doing. And I was kind of trained by somebody in real estate, who basically, basically, it was very against Bs, and I just absolutely couldn’t stand it. So really, that was kind of the thing that I lacked a connection with people, where I wanted to get a group of people together with similar mindset with similar thinking people who are not afraid of sharing ideas, thoughts, and openly creating a forum where we can as a group can grow. And I’m of the school of thought that, you know, the five people you hang around your net worth is basically your net worth is equals your net worth. And so that’s, that was basically the basic philosophy. And that’s really how we started was a group of people who I knew, and I was like, Hey, guys, let’s get a lot of experts in the area. And let’s provide great information and try to get people to take action.

D.J. Paris 23:51
Yeah, I mean, before Andrews group, it was a lot of meetups at a local bar, a handful of people would show up, and somebody really needed to come and create something with structure. And so they did that. And we should talk about your upcoming summit, your upcoming conference, which is in Skokie. It’s February 16. Through the 18th says the three day event. You can learn more about it at Andrews website, which is Chicago are eia.org. What else would you like to talk tell the listeners about the about what the Learn at the summit?

Andrew Holmes 24:21
You know, so the three days of kind of divided into day one is all about acquisition? Where do you find transactions and more so rather than retail transactions, where do you find those transactions that have 2025 30 35% 40% equity in terms of when you buy a property because because really, anybody can buy a property at retail price that doesn’t require skill. What an investor is looking for a is a good deal and good deal by our standards is somewhere where there is 30 35% 40% equity, and those today are that’s the art of investing which is if you can find I find a great deal, you can literally not do any work and sell it for a profit to somebody as a retail sale, you can obviously do a fix and flip, which is rehab it, or you can keep it for rental forever. So that’s kind of the focus they want. So we’ll talk a lot about pre foreclosures, still bank owned inventory, still a lot of off market, landlords deals

D.J. Paris 25:23
and, and to not just interject before you get to the second day of your summit, but it’s important to note that, you know, brokers who are who are most likely listening, you know, often don’t know what’s beyond the MLS, not that these properties, they may be on the MLS, but likely, there’s possibility they won’t be. And so I imagine you’ll learn alternative strategies for finding these these types of properties.

Andrew Holmes 25:45
Exactly. DJ, you know, it’s interesting, because I was trained in that mindset, right, that picks up on MLS, I didn’t know anything. That was really and it was great till two, till about two or three years ago, I didn’t have to look any other place, I could find phenomenal deals on the MLS all day long, because I was used to working the MLS all the time, yet the market has changed. So that’s kind of day one. And then that day will, what everything that we talk about, we want to bring examples of people that anybody that says, Well, I can’t do it, because I can show you an example that has beat the odds and still succeeded. And so we’ll start with somebody last year, who bought five properties to 15, to 20, to 25. To 30, by the end of the day, what we want people to say is okay, there is no excuse, the excuse is the one I make. Day two, we want to step it up, which is we put people on, we hire about five school buses, and we put people and we send them to properties. These are not for sale, we’re not selling those when I’m trying to get rid of the properties. The intent of that is we want people to look at properties that are right in their neighborhood, they may live in those neighborhoods. And there are properties that we own. I mean, it’s kind of interesting that just out of a group of about 300 people at Chicago Ria, right, there’s over 3000 properties that are owned by just a small group of investors. And it’s phenomenal how many great properties come up all the time. And so the reason for that bus tour is to kind of show the reality of what goes on what type of rental properties you should be looking at, and what type of flips you should be looking at. And then in the afternoon, all we talk about is numbers, numbers and numbers. Because really, that’s what kind of makes this business run, which is purely numbers. So day two, is purely based on flips. And we’ll have people who do small 30 $40,000 profit flips. And then we’ll have people who do complete rebuilds remodels, new construction, you know, 100 $150,000 markets, and we’ll kind of show the difference why a certain strategy works better than another, and how many transactions that really are in our area right here in Chicago. And then the day three is really kind of the big boy network, which is that is all about 257. What our goal is this that if your need is, let’s say somebody says, well, I need to make $10,000 a month, that’s my, you know, my outlay every month is 1000. So we’ll say Okay, raise it up by 20%. So that’s going to be 10,000. So you need about 13 houses to make sure that for the rest of your life, you have $10,000 that comes in doesn’t matter if a renter pays doesn’t pay, you still have enough income. And that’s what we want to build to on that date. So from the morning, we start with regular lenders that will come in, then we’ll have private money lenders come in, then we’ll have commercial lenders come in and we start building that up. And in the afternoon, we have attorneys come in talking about asset protection. So it’s about building a business, what the three days are about is that how do you build a sizable business? And how do you do it quickly, safely and with experts that are local? I mean, the great part about living in Chicago is there is real estate literally still from $30,000 all the way to 234 million. The question is what are you going to do with it?

D.J. Paris 29:02
Yeah, and I think this is such a such a great conference you’re putting together because even if the listener out there as a broker who he or she does, maybe does not want to invest themselves which which Andrew would tell you to do too, you should learn to invest yourself but even if as a broker you want to work with investors, you are now going to have the skill set of exactly what that investor is looking for. And there are so many brokers out there who whether they want to invest themselves really do want to work with investors that you know, and and that this this will give you that exact skill set to to do it yourself and also to find other investors and also be their broker.

Andrew Holmes 29:41
Nikko is going to mention that because so many, I mean some of the big names in lb that have huge businesses built on investors. I happen to be some of the speakers at the three day conference. You know some of the big REO brokers from Ryan Smith with classman office A bunch of people, Frank Montero a bunch of people that are brokers that have specialized in that but you know, our most successful people at the Ria, almost every one of them has a real estate license. Right? They like a lot of times agents will come, they’ll look at it, they start selling properties to investors, and they’re like, Oh, my God, right? I don’t I keep few of these for myself. And that light bulb goes on. And it’s awesome to see that happen. Because now not only are you serving the public, which is helping them find a home, you know, home of their dreams or building a portfolio for themselves. But now you’re, you’re basically practicing your own message, which is you’re doing it for yourself, which is the best service you can do for you and your family.

D.J. Paris 30:47
I don’t think it could be it could have been said any better. Well, let’s, let’s plug the website one more time. So in order to get more information about the conference coming up, and also the regular meetings for the Chicago Real Estate Investors Association, visit Chicago, R E, I a.org. There’s a good looking website with a lot of great information about upcoming events and how to get more involved and more educated about investments. Andrew, if there’s anyone out there who would like to reach out to you directly to get more information, or to even maybe work with you what’s the best way they should reach out?

Andrew Holmes 31:24
I mean, a couple of things. Number one, the number is 847-303-5011, or Chicago, ria.org. And anybody that calls from your show that listens to the show, and comes to the conference, just all they have to do is just mentioned that or just email, Chicago Ria. And we’ll give them it’s only 39 bucks, but we’ll give them another $10 off just as especially, I have a special kind of, you know, soft corner for people who are real estate agents, because I’ve been in those shoes. And it’s a wonderful opportunity that we have at our fingertips. The question is, what do we do with it. So it’s something that if you’re not going to take advantage of it, learn how to work with investors, the last year 25%, of Chicago market was investors. And there’s a shortage of people who are good at working with investors, and you can get 5678 transactions from one investor. So if you pick the investors properly, it can be a wonderful means not only for building wealth for yourself, but for multiplying the amount of transactions with less effort.

D.J. Paris 32:35
Absolutely. And I was just thinking back to when you said, most of the people, almost all the attendees have their license? Of course they do, because you’ve told them go get your license, save the commission. So this is

Andrew Holmes 32:46
we actually don’t you know, we discourage people, what we have always believed is this that, in fact, if anything, I always say, if whoever the listing agent is work with them, let them earn the commission, you know, and what I’ve always said is that once you find a good broker, a good broker is worth their weight in gold. I mean, this is something I’ve always had this philosophy, because this is, especially great deals, great deals come by and when they come by, if you want to be the first person, you cannot be chasing commissions, you have to chase the deal. And let the agent who has listed or whoever you’re working with be fair to them. They’re putting in time they’re putting in effort, right, let them make money. Yes, focus on the deal. The reason for having a license, as far as I’m concerned, is only one reason access, that’s it.

D.J. Paris 33:34
Sure. Sure. So yeah, you get access to the MLS and right and other properties. That’s a that’s a very good point. And so is there an email address that people can can reach you out?

Andrew Holmes 33:46
Absolutely. It’s info at Chicago RIA R E. ia.org. That’s info at Chicago ria.org.

D.J. Paris 33:56
And let’s also mention your radio show which is on 560 am the answer how often and when can people hear you on on five? On 560?

Andrew Holmes 34:05
Every Sunday at 12 o’clock noon to 1pm on AM 560 WMD

D.J. Paris 34:12
Awesome. Well, Andrew, thank you so much for your time. This has been a really fun conversation and I hope everyone listens. Gosh, for 39 Or I guess $29 to go attend this three day summit in Skokie is is kind of it seems like a no brainer. So everyone should go sign up for it. And thank you so much for being on the show. Love being

Andrew Holmes 34:33
on it. It’s a great it’s one of the best podcasts I kind of was privy to listening to it through Rosario, who you had on slick invest. And Ryan from renewable. Yes. And, and so I mean, you guys are doing a great job. So I think we might ship needed some. Well, everyone

D.J. Paris 34:53
go and register at Chicago rei a.org. Go to the summit in February or sign up for their you know, regular meetings. Obviously, Andrew is a wealth of knowledge and he surrounds himself with experts who come and are part of that organization to help clue you in on what you need to know. So thank you so much.

Andrew Holmes 35:12
Great. Thank you so much. Did you have a great day

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