Moses Hall with MoHall Commercial talks about the beginning of his career in real estate and how he started helping the realtor community in state and national level through associations. Moses describes what commercial real estate is and breaks down the sectors and why he started with commercial real estate. Moses also discusses the commission structure for agents in the commercial space. Next, Moses talks about what he thinks office space and retail space will look like post-covid19. Last, Moses describes what has he learned about real estate by serving in the realtor communities.
If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!
Moses Hall can be reached at 312-826-9925.
Please follow Moses on Instagram here.
This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.
D.J. Paris 0:00
Have you ever thought about adding commercial real estate into your business? We’re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. Their agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents. And for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show. And if you’re new here, we tucked in top producing brokers and ask them how they grow their business. And today we have a super exciting episode, Moses Hall is going to be here to talk all about commercial and everything that residential agents really need to know about it. But before we get to Moses, the best way that you can help us continue to put out these episodes is by telling other realtors about us. So please tell anyone you know about our show, they can go to our website and stream every episode we’ve ever done keeping it real pod.com Or just pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real and have your friend hit that subscribe button. We would appreciate it But enough about me let’s get on to our main event our interview with Moses Hall.
Right today on the show, we have Moses Hall from mo Hall commercial and urban development here in Chicago. We’re gonna tell you about Moses. Now Moses Hall is a commercial broker and started his real estate career in 2014. As a licensed Realtor, and through collaborative effort, his ultimate goal is to revitalize communities and build wealth through real estate on the south side of Chicago. Now, Moses his mission has been highlighted in publications, as he received the prestigious honor of being named realtor magazine’s 30 under 30 Class of 2019, which is a huge, huge deal. Moses previously served as a 2021 National Association of Realtors, chair of the commercial economic issues and trend forum. He’s also the chair of the Global Business Council for the Illinois realtors, and is also on the National Association of REALTORS board of directors. Please follow, please visit Moses at his website which is Mo Hall that’s m o Hall commercial UD so mo Hall commercial ud.com And also follow him on Instagram at mo Hall commercial. By the way, both of those links are in our show notes. So follow him on Instagram and visit mo Hall commercial ud.com Moses, thanks for being on our show.
Moses Hall 3:50
Thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, well,
D.J. Paris 3:53
you are such a an amazing, I don’t want to call you a rising star because I think your star is already in the sky. It’s already risen. But it continues to shine bright and we are really excited and very rarely on our show. Do we have any real conversations outside of the traditional residential world and when I say traditional residential, I’m talking condos could be rental rentals or people live so so residential rentals, you know condos for sale single family homes, those type of traditional people buying or selling property where they live. We almost never to have discussed investments we did for a while when I first started five years ago. We and then we realized we can’t do it as well as some of the other podcasts like bigger pockets and and we just haven’t really explored any other sectors of commercial, whether it’s you know, multifamily investing, mixed use or like Hey, I specialize in gas stations or in factories or development deals in these you know, whatever. So So, we are really excited to chat with you because I would love to because it’s a big question we get on our, in from our listeners, which is, hey, how do I get into commercial? And it’s like, well, I don’t know what that means, right? Like, there’s commercial is such a broad term, it’s like, how do you you know, it’s like, it’s so broad, it doesn’t have a specific answer. So, before we get to all of that, I’m just giving the audience a taste of, of what we’re going to be sort of chatting about. I would love to hear your journey because you’re relatively young. Yeah, you have, you’ve accomplished a tremendous amount. And you’re actively involved in helping the National Association of Realtors, as well as on the state level, in the local community level, you have been involved in really all major areas of real estate. And really, first of all, I want to thank you for, for, you know, all of the help you’re giving every one of our listeners by helping support realtors, so thank you for your service. In all of those areas, it’s really, we’re really honored that people step up to do that like yourself. But on top of that, you’re also extremely successful as as a commercial agent. So how did you get into real estate?
Moses Hall 6:13
So funny little tidbit, I actually have a background in the performing arts, I actually grew up playing piano. And so I’m originally from New York, and if you ever seen the movie Fame, sure, that was what my high school was based off of. So wow, to the fame school, and I studied jazz performance. And so the reason I mentioned this tidbit of my life is because I started to get interested in real estate while I was in high school. And that was kind of during the phenomenon of when we have reality shows start to go crazy, like flip this house and just that nature. And that was during the real estate booming, you know, that was the Circa I was in high school between 2004 2007. And so I’ve seen a lot of, you know, my family and peers and church members get into real estate. And so it piqued my interest, because I knew people that were appraisers, agents, inspectors, and of course, you know, 1516 years old, you can’t get into the industry, you’re not legal enough yet. So, by the time I graduated high school, that was when we had the big market crash. Yeah. And so I transitioned from New York, and moved to Chicago to attend Columbia College, Chicago, and I studied music business, you know, because one of the things that I realized is you always see all these documentaries about artists, and selling millions of records, and then they’re broke. And, you know, I don’t need that starving artists. So essentially, my degree is a focus is a business degree, but with a focus and emphasis on the music industry. And so as I transitioned from, you know, college student to college grad, I decided to explore once again, because the market had shifted from when I graduated high school, I decided to explore getting back into real estate. And I knew from a personal side that I didn’t necessarily want to do residential, the goal was always commercial from an investment perspective. And so that’s kind of how I kind of transitioned into jumping into, you know, commercial real estate. So shortly after graduating college, I did one year, operating an event space. And, and then after I did that for a year, I decided to go ahead and get my broker’s license, and I started January 2014, as a licensed Realtor.
D.J. Paris 8:46
Amazing. And it’s it started immediate. Well, actually, I want to go back. So yeah, back to the New York side, because you were on your way to probably like maybe a Juilliard or. Right, so so that, that that was that was your path. And that’s, you know, that’s yeah, fame, famous, you know, a great a great, I’m glad you mentioned that, and maybe a lot of our audience will go like, I don’t know what that is. Because it was the early 80s when that movie came out, but it’s a great film, but great music. But anyway, that’s where you were headed. I can tell. There’s probably other schools to maybe I don’t know, Berkeley’s out.
Moses Hall 9:25
I actually did a summer program at Berkeley. And I was looking at that school as well. And so essentially, the arts was kind of my dad, that’s
D.J. Paris 9:34
where you were, that’s, but But and then you started, you start, I guess, started thinking, hey, you know, they’re just limited career options here. I also, you know, maybe you didn’t, yeah, it’s tough. It’s just obviously you can be the greatest pianist. Yeah. And maybe you’re playing with a symphony or you’re playing in a band or doing whatever, but it’s it there isn’t an immediate obvious path to you know, sort of Bill Building a successful, especially now with a music career be so tricky. So it makes perfect sense and opt to remind one of us will have to remind us to ask you what your favorite pieces that you ever played, if you can remember. So we could say that I say that to the end. But I, I love love music as well. I’ve been playing it most of my life I started on piano, not to the extent that you did transition to guitar when I was 13. And, and has done that ever since. But, so why why did you start with commercial just out of curiosity, because I don’t know what the percentage is. But I’m gonna guess it’s 99% of people who get their license do not start there. So let’s talk about it. Because it’s, it’s the typically the less immediate path, right? There’s, there tends to be a longer lead time between starting as a commercial agent. And again, we should probably define what commercial is in a moment. But it’s a much typically a lot longer. My brother in law is a commercial broker down in Florida. And, you know, gosh, he works mostly with storefronts and, and things. And he, it’s amazing that he’ll be like, he’ll work on a deal for two years. And and then when it hits, it’s a really good hit. But he has an eating for two years, you know, so, so I appreciate the hustle there. But why did you decide to go that route.
Moses Hall 11:24
So as I mentioned, when I transition as a college student college grad, I realized that most artists need some form of space, whether you’re a dancer, whether you’re a musician, whether you’re a singer, or painter, or whatever, you need a space to showcase your art. And so I thought, hey, why not go ahead and lease a commercial loft. So I had an artist’s loft that I leased out to other artists. And what happened was, I came across an old article about the building owners and when they bought the building, and pretty much how much they paid for it. Because before, you know, it grew to what it is now it wasn’t really developed when they bought it. And so I paid attention to what they bought it for. I did the math for what they were collecting rents from me and other tenants in the building. And I said, Man, they are making a cash cow. I want to understand commercial investment on how to see the vision of a value, add property, buy it, renovate it, lease it up. And then when I learned about how you can refinance a property and kind of, you know, I’m saying do it all over again, sure. I want to do this in commercial because the thing with resin I mean, residential, is typically if you’re doing a rental property, let’s just say a single family home or a condo, if you have one vacancy, you have 100% vacancy. versus commercial, where there’s typically additional tenants, depending on like you said, we got to define what commercial is. But typically there are multiple tenants. And if you have one vacancy, it doesn’t like a single family home, it doesn’t necessarily wipe out your entire investment. So me just reading an old article kind of sparked my interest. And then from the music side, I was watching a Ray Charles documentary. And when he passed away, they said his net worth was 75 million. And the crazy part was 50 of that was due to real estate. So I say there’s a way to combine my love for the arts and my love for real estate. And you know, just seeing other artists, when you hear about the net worth and they break it down. Real estate is always in their portfolio.
D.J. Paris 13:48
You’re absolutely right, I think to like Roger Waters, who is the basically the lead songwriter and bass player for Pink Floyd, although he’s hasn’t been thinking about it forever. He’s still because their albums still sell well. He’s still one of the highest paid musicians, but his real estate portfolio is like insanely successful. So there are a lot You are absolutely right, every sort of, you know, wealthy celebrity that that has, you know, financial advisors or those financial advisors are going to tell find income producing opportunities for them. And there’s a lot of tax advantages to so So you’re essentially doing it with the space before you became an owner you were essentially doing it on a smaller scale. You’re like, hey, wait a minute, I might as well become the owners of a place like this. And then you get of course you get to realize all those additional benefits. So let’s let’s let’s take a step back just to make sure our audience understands what part what commercial you particularly focus in, because of course, there’s so many different kinds. Let’s talk about what what what specialty that is your interest.
Moses Hall 14:59
So at So I’ve had experience in all types of commercial. So I’ll break down the commercial sectors, so we have what’s called retail. So it’s typically anytime you go into a store, and you’re buying, you know, piece of clothing, like h&m, you know, things of that nature, that’s what we kind of consider retail commercial. And then we have industrial warehouse. So typically, that’s kind of where stuff is stored, you know, Manufaktur, things of that nature, then we have Office. So that’s typically where you go to work, you know, that type of stuff. And then we have what’s multifamily. So multifamily commercial is typically five units or more. So if you live in a larger housing complex, like 100 is 100 units, we would consider that even though it’s residential, people are living there. But we consider that a commercial because it’s five units or more. So typically, the general sectors and commercial real estate and I have experience with all those sectors, I’ve done deals and all those different things. But I would say my, my sweet spot of a lot of deals that I do on a day to day basis would be multifamily and industrial deals.
D.J. Paris 16:09
Wow, that’s, that’s really cool, because those are very different, in my mind, but they’re both very cool, I think, because the the multifamily I think is easier for strictly residential agents to sort of wrap their mind around, they understand it, because they’re probably doing some rentals themselves as realtors, and they’re certainly understand people live places, and they live in apartment buildings. And here in Chicago, we have a lot of multifamily properties, you know, compared to other cities, and especially Chicago, Southside has just a ton of, of that, and, but also the, the industrial sites very interesting because to me, that’s a, that’s, you know, typically not in the the super urban areas that are mostly residential, you know, you may be going more to the outskirts, these are bigger, of course, properties that have a whole different skill set, I’m sure that’s needed from you to be able to effectively, you know, place a client in their space or find, you know, be able to list it and help you know, sell it. But I am, I am fascinate. So we get a lot of people who ask us, hey, I want to get into commercial and of course, first would be okay, well, what sector right what sector interests. But let’s talk about restorative, I want to first before we get into that I want to hear because I think this is really important as you’re not just a commercial broker, doing commercial deals, you have a mission, and a purpose that I think is really important for our audience to understand why we’re so excited to have you. So can you talk about your ultimate vision for what you can do in the commercial space? Yes.
Moses Hall 17:55
So my ultimate vision is to revitalize urban communities. I know there’s this buzzword and it’s kind of like a killed word, gentrification, gentrification, gentrification. I know, that’s kind of like everyone runs. But my goal is to improve these communities without displacing the original native residents in the area. And when you go to Chicago, Southside, it is so beautiful to understand the historic properties and history of it, especially like communities on the south side, like Brownsville to know, you know, musician, myself, and to know how many jazz musicians settled in this community, and built their name and how many clubs and, you know, performance venues happened to be in this area. And then over the years, obviously, it fell into despair. And now it’s making a comeback, or, you know, now that we have new development, and I feel like new commercial real estate is one of the best avenues to improve these communities. Because one of the things that kind of helped improve communities is new development, bringing businesses here, when you bring businesses here, that means there’s job opportunities with job opportunities, that means there’s a need for housing. So it’s kind of like a trickling effect of things that happen through commercial real estate. So that’s kind of my focus is to really build up because I feel even though I’m not originally from Chicago, I feel that Chicago is a beautiful city. It has a it has its challenges, but I think as a as a group, a collective group, we can overcome those challenges.
D.J. Paris 19:30
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more and I’m really impressed that you have this sort of higher calling aside from you know, obviously the success you’re you’re experiencing personally as this like, hey, I want to make a difference. And it doesn’t just extend to your business and and I think first of all, everyone listening, if you don’t have a higher purpose, and it doesn’t mean of course that you have to save the world. That’s not what we’re saying. But whatever. part that you can contribute to your local community as realtors, this is where we live in play is in a local community, anything you can do to, to make that community a little shinier, a little, a little more beautiful or just helping out when there’s need, I think not only will ultimately help your business, because people are very attracted to working with agents who do think that way. So aside from it, that’s kind of a secondary benefit. But the primary benefit is you’re going to have a heck of a lot of fun. And you’re going to be able to immerse yourself in a community and say, I want to help because this is where my business is. And I work here and I want to be, I want to be a beacon of light. And this for you doesn’t just extend to your business, this is something that, that you are somebody that I’ve been very impressed with for as long as I’ve known of you. Because you also give back to the realtor community. So aside from just hey, the local community in the parts of the south side that are like really interesting to you that you want to make more beautiful and better and bring jobs, you also say, hey, every realtor out there, I want to help you too. And you’ve served at the local, state and national level. So can we talk just to digress a little bit from commercial? Because if if people are listening, if nothing else, Moses is is a really great example of how you can become a leader within the realtor community, whether it’s local or nationwide, so you can talk to can you talk about why that’s important to you? And, and why you enjoy doing that?
Moses Hall 21:31
Yes, I think a lot of us get caught up in the, you know, I get a lead a short property, I put a contract in, I close it down, I get my check. And I had to learn, there’s more to this industry than that. And a big part of my job is advocacy, standing on the front lines and advocating for others that don’t have a voice. And so it was important to me once I learned that there are positions and awkward leader leadership opportunities for me to serve my my association, not just on a local level, but on a national level, it was a no brainer for me to get involved. And, you know, like I said, and there’s also a personal benefit, because there are certain things that are on the legislation table that can immediately impact our business. You know, when COVID happened, this was the first time that as Realtors if you are struggling, that you could apply for unemployment. Why was that? Right? That was because we had people advocating on our behalf on Capitol Hill. This is why it’s important to get involved because there are certain things that directly impact your day to day business.
D.J. Paris 22:42
Yeah, in there’s so much that can be said about why getting involved is, is important. And I think that, you know, it’s it’s it’s a cool thing I was thinking about this. The other day I was I was I was feeling a little down, I was having a tough day. Just not you have to get in specific spots just whenever it’s having a tough day. And I had a Chicago association was was doing a little volunteer opportunity for a couple of hours, actually at at an industrial warehouse here in Chicago. And I had already signed up for it. But I was like, Ah, it’s not that I didn’t want to go, I just was feeling kind of down. I had other things going on. And I wasn’t I was like, Okay, I’m going anyway. So I showed up and I helped and it was I love, I love doing things like that. But I came home and I thought, You know what nobody ever tells you. And I this is a little selfish, but it’s a nice selfishness, I think because you’re you’re helping is you get to feel good about yourself. When you contribute in any way. Whether it’s giving back, you know, to realtors, as you have giving back to your community, there’s a certain sense of like, I’m doing some good here that helps self esteem, it helps confidence, it just helps you feel good. And it doesn’t mean you know, you’re you should be rewarded, you know, with all these accolades, because you help out but you’re gonna get to feel good regardless of anyone ever knows you’re doing it or not. And I, I really wish I had learned that much earlier in life. Because I think that that is a tremendous way to not only further one’s career moment and knowledge and but also just to go you know what, I am actually making a little, at least a little bit of a difference.
Moses Hall 24:29
I think one of the best feelings I’ve ever had when I served on the car Foundation, we partnered with another organization that helped displace homeless families. And so there was this family of like eight single, and they were living shelter and shelter. We were able to secure them housing, and we helped them move in and set up their furniture. And so when the kids walked in, and saw that they had their own bed for the first time I mean, the I mean, the joy on their faces, like you said that gratification of I know I’m in the right field, I know I’m doing the right thing, when you can bring joy to little kids faces that were displaced for years. And to see that they were just happy just to have their own bed.
D.J. Paris 25:17
While a single parent with eight kids, I mean, that’s seems like the toughest mountain in the world to climb. And that person was and then having to move and shelter to shelter. I mean, not to get hung up in that particular story. But But like, if we all just think about that, every single one of us listening can have an impact in somebody’s life, whether it’s, you know, through helping them personally, or helping as Moses if you’ve done it even on the national level. And you are now on the board of directors for National Association of REALTORS as well. Yeah, so let’s congratulations on that. That is a huge, huge deal. Can you talk about what? What is? So you deal a lot with commercial? Yeah, and the National Association of Realtors, again, commercial is a relatively small percentage of the overall number of transactions done by realtors in the country, of course, because, you know, we all have to live somewhere. So the most of the transactions are going to be residential, but it What would you say to our audience, for anyone that says, you know, I would like to add in, I’m a residential broker, or, and I’m sorry, guys, when I say broker in Illinois, here, we only have brokers. So it just, it’s an interchangeable word with agent, realtor. So just excuse my language states are different. So we’ll just say agents going forward. So I don’t confuse the audience. Because like in Florida, brokers, like usually the person that’s in charge the Boston Anyway, whatever, every day, by the way, if anyone from National Association of REALTORS is listening, if we could just make it the same in every state, that would be awesome. Because it would make my life easier. So do it for me, please. No, I’m teasing. But for people that are thinking, hey, I’m a residential agent, and I’m thinking about, you know, maybe adding in, you know, some new skills, and maybe one of those is commercial. Number one, do you recommend that if for a true, you know, an almost exclusively residential person? Or do you typically recommend you know, what partner with somebody who really specializes in that sector.
Moses Hall 27:28
So, as we kind of mentioned before, there’s so many different sectors of commercial real estate, and it depends on the intensity of the deal. There are a lot of moving parts within the commercial real estate sector. So let’s just say we’re doing a commercial lease, like, you know, retail, you know, like you say, representing the store, there are different types of leases, it’s not like your general lease, like residential, where you may have a one year lease, you know, typically commercial, our leases are a lot longer at minimum, three years, you know, on, you know, average, but of course, it can go up to 20 years, 25 years, depending on the intensity and caliber of the deal. But the reason I mentioned that is there are so many nuances. And if you don’t understand the lease, you can do a disservice to your client, not understanding what type of lease the nuance is the lingo, the language and having understanding. So I would say it will be great if you don’t, it’s hard to take a crash course, you know, in commercial real estate, but now if it’s kind of like you’re dealing with like a small mom and pop, you know, that owns a little you know, 600 square feet, storefront, you might be able to wiggle your you know, self, you know, through the deal. But if we’re talking about you’re looking at a strip center mall, or something of that caliber, and you’re dealing with an institutional landlord, you can’t really wiggle your way, you know, through those types of deals, because like I said, we have a different process. Normally, with a residential contract, you already have a pre made contract laid out, all you got to do is fill in the terms with commercial, we start with what’s called a letter of intent. And that kind of spells out the terms that we’re looking for, and there’s a lot of moving parts. So to your question, would I recommend someone that has no commercial experience to try to do a commercial deal? No, I would definitely refer it refer it out or partner with someone. I do have a lot of residential referral partners that I do partner with. And if they do want to learn they can shadow me in the deal, what kind of work through the deal, I’ll be the lead agent on it and what kind of work and I kind of train agents in that way to you know, to do commercial deals, but it is not like a fly by night type of thing that you can do. Now, I will say depending on your local association, I know Chicago Association Realtors does a good job of offering electives and classes on commercial real estate aid. There are also other trade associations. We have what’s called ICSC that’s for a retail. We have Uli, that’s for has called Urban Land Institute. So there are different other trade organizations within the commercial industry that you can join and be a part of. And they also offer different commercial classes. But I think the biggest thing is, wherever you hold your license, if they do commercial training on that, yeah, that’s, that’s the really biggest thing.
D.J. Paris 30:31
You’re absolutely right. And I’m sorry for stepping on on what you said. And just in case it didn’t come through, because I was blabbing on Moses was saying, hey, if the company you work at if that’s not really what they do, then maybe consider, you know, referring it to a true commercial broker. And, and vice versa, right. So there’s like we get calls from people who work at these large institutional commercial firms like a Marcus and Millichap Cushman and Wakefield, Jones, Lang, LaSalle CBRE, those big huge companies where they’re like, we don’t even know about residential like, we don’t we don’t let our agents do residential, they only can do these, you know, these big giant deals, and they refer people back to residential agents as well. And they get paid on those referrals. So and I think it’s really cool, too, because, like you were saying, you partner with agents. And and I’m just curious, and please, I hope this does not come across in a way that suggests that you’re doing this for this reason, because I know you’re not you have this amazing altruistic quality to you. But I’m just curious, being as visible as you are, because of how much you serve the local associations of wells, the state and the national. I’m curious from a referral perspective, do you because you’re more visible do you do other people reach out to you simply because they know that you contribute in these ways and say, Hey, by the way, I do have an opportunity in Chicago, maybe they’re not even a local broker?
Moses Hall 32:04
Yeah, absolutely. I matter of fact, I just had the opportunity to go to France, and I represented the Illinois Realtors at one of the largest commercial real estate conferences called Mipham. And their NAR does have a presence at that booth. And I actually ran into someone from another, you know, state that was like, Oh, hey, I sent someone so I gave him your number, because they were looking for an industrial property in Chicago, and you’re like, the first person I thought of in commercial. So yeah, and I was like, Yeah, we talked in XYZ. So to your point, yes. People do. You know, because I do hold certain positions, and, you know, leadership. And I, you know, I am, you know, fortunately a top producer within the Chicago position and realtors and commercial. So top of mind people think to send me referrals from other cities, other states and other positions as well.
D.J. Paris 33:01
Yeah, it’s a nice sort of ancillary or just sort of accidental benefit, which I know is not the reason why you serve,
Moses Hall 33:09
but it is, but it is a benefit. And when you do you serve in these positions, it should be some benefit to you, because it is a lot of commitment to serve in these positions. Like you said, you were having, you know, not so the best day but you were still committed to going to this event, there should be some type of benefit in doing these things. So yes, as a as a as a byproduct of me leading many positions. Yes, I do get referrals and I am top of mind to people.
D.J. Paris 33:38
Great. And I have a question too about about the commercial side, which is around. Let you know, it’s funny, we should let’s just talk about what a typical commission might actually be because I feel like residential agents really don’t understand how Commission’s are even structured. Oftentimes for commercial again, it depends on the sector. Obviously, we’re talking what’s maybe the most accessible version of commercial which would be maybe retail because this residential agents do get those opportunities. Yeah, so
Moses Hall 34:12
the thing is, and I’m glad you mentioned that. One in commercial, you have to make sure if depending on what side you’re representing, if you’re representing the buyer or the teammate, you want to make sure that there’s a commission being offered Right? Like the MLS typically MLS. There’s a commission stated a lot of times commercial practitioners do not use the MLS we have other platforms and tools like costar loop net and Craxi anorexia. Sure sometimes the commission has not stated so number one need to x what is the commission and you’re saying you know what a general feel for what commission is not to violate any antitrust No, no, no, no, no, no, I’m not just you know, making a statement but um, but with retail, it can be structured differently like like You said I just did a lease, sometimes you can get a percentage on the first year of the lease, and then a different percentage on the rest of the year because like I said, sometimes they’re signing 510 year leases. So you may get a percentage when they first sign the lease, and then you will get another check when they actually open up for business. And then you may get another check. You know, after one year of being in business, so there’s different commission schedules, depending on what type of commercial it is, you know, if it’s sale typically, like you say, you can just do a flat percentage split between you and the cooperating broker. So I mean, it’s similar to residential and the Commission, but like I said, sometimes if it’s a larger deal, you’re not getting your money upfront, you may have to split it in quarters. And sometimes you may get paid on renewals of lease and different things like that.
D.J. Paris 35:56
Yeah, I had, I was talking to a broker yesterday, who was an attorney who only does commercial, not on this podcast, just somebody here at here at our firm. And she was telling me, I don’t even remember what the actual deal was, but she didn’t really get into too much detail. But she said she’d get paid three times on it. And it was something like 4% of that maybe the lease or whatever. Three different years. Yeah. And but I guess the point is, is it’s it can be structured, any which way?
Moses Hall 36:24
Yeah. It’s a wild wild west. Yeah.
D.J. Paris 36:29
Which is also a good reason to maybe not as a residential as a true residential agent, try to go go that route, because you there’s just a lot because it’s so flexible. And so there’s just so many different ways in which it can be structured. And you sort of just don’t want to be in a position where if you’re like, I really don’t know this, this area, that all of a sudden, maybe you’re putting the client in a bad situation without realizing it, and maybe even putting yourself in a bad situation with respect to Commission’s
Moses Hall 36:59
Yeah, because, like you said, I mean, like I said, generally speaking, sometimes, with residential rentals, you may be offered half a mile mom’s you know, there’s a range to that there’s no industry standard, but just generally speaking, but with commercial, if you represent a tenant and they sign a five year lease, you’re shortchanging yourself to only get a half a month’s rent, when you could have gotten paid like you said three times. But if you don’t know any better, and if your brokerage don’t know that this is kind of, and like you said, certain commercial agents, they may know that you don’t do commercial, so they may just say, well, they’ll take this I gotta pay them that so it pays to know these types of things.
D.J. Paris 37:43
Yeah, and also to, you mentioned, the there isn’t really a true commercial MLS, we have our MLS, which is does have some commercial properties on it, and probably every local MLS does to some extent, but a lot of commercial property, you know, never hits the local MLS, it might hit some third party, we’ll call them unofficial MLS is like Craxi Mostar loop net. And if you’re somebody who really is trying to play in the in the commercial space, and you don’t subscribe to those types of services, you don’t have as much access to those listed properties, because the MLS is just going to have a limited exposure to commercial. Because just a lot of things just just exchange hands outside of the MLS. And if you look to get those types of memberships, costar loot, net proxy, etc, they tend to be quite costly, not that they’re not worth it. They’re just expensive. And if you’re already paying, you know, $1,500 a year for your local MLS, and then you’re paying maybe another, you know, grand or two or more for these other it gets costly.
Moses Hall 38:53
Yeah, yeah. And so I think that’s the also another thing is that people want the big commission checks, but don’t want the investment. The reason there’s a higher entry barrier to commercial, because like you said the payout can be potentially bigger, but you have to be able to invest in yourself. So you said when you ask if it’s a residential president is know anything about commercial, and they try to cut corners? Because like you said, if you’re if you’re representing a buyer, and they ask, actually, oh, hey, what should our offer be? What is this property worth? You can’t go on the MLS, not easy
D.J. Paris 39:33
to run comps, yeah,
Moses Hall 39:34
because there’s not going to be any data. Right? You have to go through some of these third parties, or you have to have relationships with certain brokers to get, you know, to give them a call, like, Hey, I know you listed someone so you know, what did you end up moving for? And you have to understand that with commercial, there’s different evaluation processes. So like, you know, with residential typically, you know, you guys use the cells A comparison approach, which is for the sticks and bricks of the building right there, the value is typically the same for residential property, whether it’s occupied or vacant, you know, generally speaking now with commercial, that value may be completely different. Right? If it’s occupied or vacant prime example, there was a California investor that purchased like a KFC here in the Chicago market. He ended up he bought, you know, KFC was the tenant, he bought the real estate and KFC was on the lease, and things like a 1015 year lease, he bought it for like 1.2 million, I think the pandemic had hit. And somehow someone didn’t do their due diligence. I don’t know how but KFC they didn’t personally guarantee the lease, the franchisee didn’t personally guarantee the lease, there’s abuse of commercial terms. And they were able to wiggle out of the lease, and they end up closing. And so when they close, remember, he bought it for 1.2 million, because there was a long term tenant in place paying rent, when the KFC closed, the value of the property is only 500,000. Yeah, so with commercial, we’ve, we essentially give value based on the income that it’s producing. And so you have to understand how to, it’s not like you say multifamily, you know, similar to residential, but you have to understand certain mathematical equations to give your client an overall perspective, do you know what the capitalization rate is? Do you know the cash on cash return? Do you know, you know, different terminology that typically residential agents do do not have an understanding of so that you can give your client the full perspective of whether offers should be?
D.J. Paris 41:49
Yeah, it’s very complicated. It really is a different world in many respects. And I would say the wisest agents, I know, they say not that they don’t want to expand their skill set, because you should always be expanding your skill set. However, they don’t, you know, play in, you know, they don’t swim in waters where they’re not sure how deep it goes, because it’s just too dangerous. It’s too scary. And they’re probably just not going to do a great job for their client, not because they’re not wonderful people, they just don’t have that skill set. And for me, it seems, but you’re right, it’s it’s easy to calculate, if you find out what the commission would be. It’s, it’s, it’s easy to look at that number, and say, I could probably get this done. And maybe you can, but boy, it’s a tremendous amount of risk and stress. And for me, it seems you can refer it to a person like like, of course, like Moses, who can probably get the deal closed a lot faster, and with better terms, and he just, this is obviously what you do all day, and then still get you know, a certain percentage of the enrollments or the commission is the referral. And right away, it seems like a lot a lot, you know, a lot better path to go.
Moses Hall 43:06
Right? Yeah, like you say you want to limit your liability, and you want you don’t want to do a disservice to your client. And so like you say, you don’t want something to come back to you, you know, on the back end, that’s something that a commercial person would have called on the front end, like, Hey, did you see this term? You know, you know, like, you want to, you know, catch stuff upfront, but if you don’t know, then you don’t know to advise your client on these different things. And so kind of, like you said, there are a lot of moving parts, a lot of nuances, that it’s kind of hard to learn on the fly, unless you have you shadow someone. And like I said, I paid my dues. I’m still learning, but, you know, I’ve paid my dues. I’ve shadowed people are working on their people. I’ve, you know, done deals with others. And now I’ve built you know, to a certain point I’ve invested in myself, we have what’s called the CCI M, that’s kind of like the premier designation on investing in that completing that course. So there’s a lot of investment that goes into being a commercial real estate, not just outside of the tools, but the education and then getting the experience.
D.J. Paris 44:11
Have you noticed, and obviously the pandemic has changed so many things. You know, a lot of us are sort of concerned in our local communities. And I know you don’t have a crystal ball, obviously, nor do you speak for every commercial agent. But and I know your particular sector isn’t your specialty necessarily isn’t like office space. But you know, Have you have you seen any trends that suggest that we’re starting to return back to offices or our you know, our businesses? Obviously, it depends business to business, but are people you know, working from home as much as they did during the pandemic, or is it here to stay or where do you think we’re headed there
Moses Hall 44:54
I think is still going to be a hybrid model. I don’t think people are going to work from the office five days a week. Eat. But I think what employers are doing now is enhancing the employees experience. So now office buildings are having a lot of amenities, they’re doing a lot of stuff that, you know, encourages you to come to the office that you can’t do at home, you know, whether it’s because like you say, you want to keep company morale up, you know, there’s certain things that it’s hard to do, especially if you’re a new, newer employee to learn, you know, saying, you want to be in the field, you want to build that company morale. And so I think it’s about employers, enhancing employees experience to encourage them to come to the office. But like I said, I do think it’s going to be a hybrid model. I think most companies are not going to force you to come in five days a week, but they are going to, you know, have you come in maybe twice a week, two to three times a week. And then the other two is work from home. So I do now that a lot of restrictions have been lifted. Like you said, there’s vaccines and boosters out, I think, right now we’re just learning to live with COVID. It’s not going anywhere, at this point. And of course, when numbers spiked, then you know, it might, you know, restrictions come back. But while we’re open, you know, people returning to office, a lot of major companies, and you got to think there’s a lot of money invested in these spaces. And so to let it completely go to waste. I don’t think it’s going to be a forever work from home. But like I said, it has created a lot of other opportunities, remote opportunities. But to answer your question, I do believe it’s going to be a hybrid of of things. And employers are going to learn how to better enhance the employee experience by coming into the office. So like I say, maybe offering yoga classes, you know, you know, outdoor space, you know, company Park, like things that encourage you to come to the office they enjoy at home.
D.J. Paris 46:50
Yeah, I think you’re right. And I’ve also on the retail side, I’ve started here locally in Chicago and the neighborhoods that I’m most commonly in, I’m starting to see some of those vacant spaces, slowly start to refill. And I’m excited for that. Curious if, if that’s happening in the areas that you’re interested in, in the south side? Are we starting to see retail, returning? Where during the pandemic? Obviously, it suffered tremendously. Are we starting to see that come back?
Moses Hall 47:23
Yeah, so you know, actually, I specialize in all Chicago Chicagoland area, but I just have more of a heart and passion for this little side. But um, I do north side, west side, east side, you want me to be I’m on there. But to your point, yes, retail is making a comeback. In terms of because like you said, there’s less restrictions, before there was all the vaccine mandates, and all that type of stuff. But people are getting back out there business, our businesses are able to thrive a little bit better, with all the restrictions being lifted. So we are seeing those, you know, retail spaces, get filled leases be signed, things of that nature. So I’m seeing that across the board, not just here in the city, but also suburbs as well.
D.J. Paris 48:08
That’s a very exciting, so I always thought oh, boy commercial is going to take this big hit during the pandemic, because office space is changing, people are working remotely. Of course, that affects local businesses, retail as well, people sitting at home all day, it’s different when they get to walk around outside and shop, and now with with, you know, ways where we can get things delivered immediately to us where we don’t have to physically visit brick and mortar locations as much as we needed to buy for which was the only way mostly to get goods and services. Now, a lot of businesses are our delivery based and so which is wonderful for convenience. But it’s nice to know that that there are brick and mortar, we’re seeing this revitalization of of brick and mortar and people are, quite frankly, it seems and again, I’m not speaking for anyone or everyone but people are just tired of being inside. Correct? Yeah, it’s it’s look, you know, it’s it’s great to be able to order things and have them delivered in a day or two. It’s also cool to go out and walk down the street. And if you have retail nearby, walk in and see things and if that all goes away, you know if if we’re if that actually goes away, just think about and I really encourage everyone to really think about this and why it’s important to support local businesses in particular, especially small businesses, but certainly all businesses but but certainly small ones. Because if those go away, think about what that does to the aesthetic landscape of the actual visible landscape of the community. It changes,
Moses Hall 49:42
right. I think the biggest thing is about the user experience. I think like you said, people are tired of being cooped up inside and they want the experience and it’s so funny that you mentioned about small businesses, just because in the last 24 hours, I literally have just gotten to calls for small businesses that are literally busting out the seams in their current space, and they need more retail space, because the business is booming, people are coming back. And they’re just like, hey, our space, current space is too small, we need to purchase a larger facility that can house things. And like I said, this has been two businesses in less than 24 hours, small businesses that have caught me. And like I said, they have decent budgets to do that. So when you ask, is retail coming back? By the calls that I’m getting? Yes, it is.
D.J. Paris 50:32
That’s amazing. I’m so glad to hear that. And I, I think it’s it’s, it’s important for our audience to remember that, again, we don’t really just if you’re a residential agent, you have to not just support the homes in that community. But also think about how what can I do to support these local businesses so that people may want to live in these communities, where there’s local businesses, because I know, especially here in Chicago, we have all these wonderful neighborhoods, and you get to choose which neighborhood you want to live in, depending on you know, what, what, where you want, and what you can afford. And a lot of it for me is, especially here is I like living by cool shops, I like that personally. And I pay a premium to live by cool retail. And if my if that retail, in a lot of people where I live feel exactly the same way. There’s great restaurants and cool, you know, shops and whatever. And if that all goes away, guess what happens to the property value of my property, it goes way, way down. And not that it’s important that I you know, make a ton of money when I end up selling my condo, because who cares. But I want my community to be beautiful, because I am not looking to move anytime soon, I want to stay. So I think about that when I’m purchasing things, I think not that this is I’m just sort of soapbox telling anybody what to do. But it’s something to think about. And as Realtors we have a responsibility to help keep our local communities strong. And part of that is by supporting commercial, supporting retail supporting all of the businesses that make up that community. Sorry, a brand’s over. But I just wanted to make that point because it’s easy for us to just think house, house House House House. And we don’t think about all of the the infrastructure that goes into making those homes attractive with all these surrounding businesses, whether you’re in a suburb that you live in, in a in a residential development, while you still need retail to support that residential development. And, and you know, it’s really, really important. As we as we wrap up, I would like to talk again, about getting involved. And I Sorry for going back to this for anyone if it’s if it’s a broken record, but I really want to hear you talk about, like why we talked about why it’s important to you, how much have you learned about real estate has it furthered your knowledge by serving in all these different volunteer sort of opportunities? You know, within the realtor sort of space, I have to imagine you just have more knowledge now about the entire industry and process.
Moses Hall 53:17
Yeah, it’s not just about the industry itself. But you know, I have been an entrepreneur my entire life. And so I’ve never worked a nine to five job, I never do any of those things. And so my first like, experience and working into an organization was super eye opening to me, I didn’t know how to run a meeting and how to pass a motion and how you know, protocol and running an organization. So it gives you inside scoop on how to run an organization. So it builds your leadership skills. And then to like you said, You do learn more about the industry. You learn about the history of the industry, you learn about what’s coming and what to look out for what to warn your clients about. You can also tell your clients, you know, like I said each year, typically, the realtors, we have Capitol day and we go to Springfield, Illinois, and we go talk to our local legislators. And can you imagine telling your clients say, Hey, I went to Springfield to lobby on your behalf. I know that they’re trying to increase taxes. I know they’re trying to take away private property rights. And I talked to my local congressman and let them know that no, we Realtors we do not stand with this. You know, X, Y and Z that makes you look so good in front of your clients will absolutely have your best interests at heart because sometimes the perception is that Realtors what are we good for? You know, why are you guys getting paid all this money? Really, really, it’s not a lot of money when you break it down to how much cost and knowledge and investment that we put into our careers. And so it shows value. I think that’s the biggest thing as Realtors is showing our value. And so when you lead in when You accept these leadership positions, it creates value point, because now you’re knowledgeable. Now you’re gaining experience. And now you can advocate on your client’s behalf, not just your clients, but have but your industry’s behalf.
D.J. Paris 55:12
Well said, and and you’re absolutely right. It also is an amazing thing to be able to say to your client to say, not that you would say it for this purpose, but to be able to say, hey, just so you know, I’m not available tomorrow, because I’m heading down to our state capitol to talk to our local congressman or a senator or house, you know, a rapid to talk about rent control, or to talk about, you know, whatever topics might be important that might directly affect Realtors on either side, whether it’s commercial or residential. It’s certainly something that, yeah, I
Moses Hall 55:49
mean, not not to cut you off. But one of the biggest things that was kind of on the chopping block is what we call 1031 exchange that a lot of investors use. And that was, you know, certain legislation was coming down the pipeline that was trying to x that which would have caused a huge housing crisis more than what we’re in now. I mean, it would have been insane, if they would have chopped the 1031 exchange, which is a tax strategy that investors use to sum it up for those, but that because I was able to speak, and others were able to lobby, and thankfully, they didn’t, you know, chop it and do all those different things that was talked about initially. So that’s what you know, being in these leadership positions do for you. It not only helps you as a business person, but it helps protect your industry that can have devastating effects on on your business.
D.J. Paris 56:47
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And just to wrap up, curious about music. Let’s talk about about piano, what do you have and you might not have a favorites. Okay, but do you have a favorite piece that you ever performed?
Moses Hall 57:00
Oh, man is no, that’s, that’s super hard, because like you said, I play you know, jazz performance. And so you know, we studied Duke Ellington. We are actually Witten Marcellus, he kind of lived in the area. So anytime before large concert, he would come in and critique us and give us power and you know, things of that nature. So it’s super hard to kind of say which song because I guess I had the jazz. I actually grew up playing gospel, you know, r&b soul country. So it’s, it’s hard for me to pick one song. This depends on the mood I’m in. But that’s
D.J. Paris 57:37
a good point. I know for for jazz pianists. The only pianists that I’m super familiar with and I’m not even that familiar. would be like Bill Evans from Bill Evans is amazing. Felonious Monk. I guess Herbie Hancock, of course. And, and then there’s a guy and I’m only gonna say this is so funny that we’re not a music show. But if everyone I want everyone to check this out, I think it’s just a fun if you’re not a jazz person, this is a great album to try out. Dave Brubeck had an album called take five or timeout things called timeouts. Yes, yes. And it’s a real accessible Yeah. been, you know, and it’s kind of like, I don’t know, it’s a fun album. It’s it’s a very accessible album to Korea, of course, as well. So those are the Duke Ellington, as you mentioned, there’s so many great, oh, my gosh, I could, I could,
Moses Hall 58:33
it’s hard to choose. So like I said, I’ve been fortunate to be able to combine my love for real estate and music and actually have my own music publishing company. So what I do is, it’s called Mohawk publishing. So what I do is I acquire publishing rights to notable artists, to certain songs, anytime particular song is streamed online, played on radio placed on a TV ad I generate a royalty check.
D.J. Paris 58:59
That’s amazing. Good for you. That is that’s really awesome. And are you still playing piano as well? Yes.
Moses Hall 59:04
Yeah. So I still play out, you know, occasionally, not as much as I used to in my younger years. But I still get out there and play on the scene.
D.J. Paris 59:13
Wow, good, good for you. Well, well, if there’s any any samples that we can provide to our audience, we’d love to feature you. Maybe there’s a YouTube video we can grab or something. That would be be really fun for us. But Moses, thank you so much for being on our show. I think you’re extremely enlightening about the importance of, you know, working with a trusted commercial partner. And by the way, we should also mention that, you know, Moses is a great person to to know in this industry. So if you do have any commercial opportunities that are happening here in the Chicago area, including the suburbs, he works all over because of course, businesses are all over. He would he would love the opportunity to chat with you. So if you’re an agent that maybe has a business moving And hear or need some help, or any anyone who’s maybe an investor in the commercial space, Moses, what’s the best way somebody should reach out to you,
Moses Hall 1:00:08
you can reach me on all social media platforms at Moses, M O S, E S, Hall, H A LL. So I’m on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, you can find me Google me, I’m definitely findable. And I’ll definitely respond to your messages as soon as possible.
D.J. Paris 1:00:23
And also visit him on his website, which is Mo Hall commercial U D, which stands for urban development, Mo Hall, commercial ud.com. And again, Mo Hall commercial on Instagram, we’ll have those links in the shownotes. Well, Mo, thank you so much for being on our show. Appreciate your time, and also appreciate all your service to the industry, you’re helping us in ways that we don’t even know because most of us aren’t as connected in it to what’s happening behind the scenes to help keep our jobs safe. And also are just the regulations in line with the you know, the National Association of REALTORS vision and goals, which is to protect our livelihoods. So we are super grateful to you for that. And also a good reminder to everyone else to think about a way that you can get involved and contribute. And, you know, you’ll just have a lot of fun doing it and also do some good along the way. So, on behalf of everyone here who’s listening, think we want to thank Moses for his time today. And of course, on behalf of Moses and myself, I want to thank our audience, you’re the reason we can continue to, to put these episodes out because you keep listening and you keep telling a friend. And we’ll remind you and ask you for a quick favor to tell one other friend about our show. If you haven’t already. Please tell other agents that we exist. And we want to keep growing as well. So anyone that you can think of that might be interested in hearing from somebody like Moses, who does so much for our industry, or just wants to learn more about commercial send them a link to this episode. Easiest way to do that we have a website, keeping it real pod.com Every episode we’ve ever done, you can stream live right there. Or if the person you’re referring to has is a podcast listener just happened pull up any podcast app, search for keeping it real and hit that subscribe button. And also please last thing we’ll ask from you please leave us a review on whatever app you might be listening that really helps us learn more about how to better improve our show and also what you like and what you don’t like so we can keep modifying it to better meet your needs. So thank you so much, Moses for your time today. And really appreciate it. We will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks Mel. Thank you
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