Use By-Downs To Help Buyers With Their Home Lending Rate! • Learning With A Lender • Joel Schaub

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Welcome to the June episode of Learn with a Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate!

In this episode Joel discusses the current situation in the real estate business. Joel and DJ discuss the strength of the correct pre-approval letter. Joel explains the buy-outs and 2-1 rate by-down and discusses how do sellers explore by-downs. Last Joel talks about interest-deductions for first-time home buyers and how to explain it in real simple terms and mortgage insurance rates.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at joel@rate.com and 773.654.2049.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks.


D.J. Paris 0:00
There’s a secret strategy known by top Realtors on how to get their buyers lending rates down. Right now we’re going to learn about how to do that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show. And today once again, is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel shop from guaranteed rate. Now, Joel is the vice president of lending at guaranteed rate, and he’s been doing loans at a high level since 2003. He got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is that he gives back part of his commission to the buyer on every transaction. Now last year alone, Joel gave back over $300,000 in closing costs to buyers who worked with him. And that puts Joe’s volume in the top 1/10 of 1% of all loan officers nationwide. In fact, out of 400,000 lenders in the country. Joel is currently ranked number one 137 last year. Oh, you know, I deleted Joel’s numbers from last year by mistake, but he did an incredible amount of production last year. But this year, he closed has closed already 137 transactions for just shy of just under $60 million in loans. If you’re ever looking for a loan officer, we could not more highly recommend Joel he’s the very best we’ve ever worked with. Joel can be reached at his email, which is joel@rate.com J oel@rate.com. Or you can shoot him a text message or call him at 773-654-2049. Let’s say hello to the biggest Cubs fan. I know. Hey, Joel.

Joel Schaub 3:04
TJ, thanks so much for having me on again. And now we feel like summer is in full effect. And I’m really excited to be sharing what’s going on behind the scenes and mortgages so that the listeners can either close one more transaction on the buy side or maybe get one more listing. And it’s always my favorite time of the month when we connect together.

D.J. Paris 3:24
Me too. And you know, this is a time when it seems like there’s a lot of activity in the market. And the two major grumbles or complaints that I hear is low inventory, and rates not being where we would like them to be. So I’m curious to sort of get your take on what’s going on today in the market and how agents can take advantage of any opportunities that you see.

Joel Schaub 3:49
And the third grumble, right. It’s just my stomach before I have breakfast, right? It’s gotta be the third one, its rates on right lack of inventory. And then maybe the days where I skipped breakfast, but no, DJ, you’re exactly right. I feel that it’s strange that these rates being as high as they are, you know, just below 7% Right now, haven’t scared off buyers in the sense that we’re seeing two out of three homes go into multiple offers, you know what I mean? It’s amazing. And so when you have these properties that are actually hot, and they come on the market, there’s multiple offers on these. And it seems like it’s the dichotomy, right? There’s properties that sit and they’re listed incorrectly or they’re the ones that are priced correctly. And buyers are still saying I’m going to pay you 20 grand more than the listing price 30 grand, and with rates being this high, it’s not the way it should be. But there’s a major lack of inventory in all the major metropolitan markets.

D.J. Paris 4:49
Well, and this is an opportunity for realtors to understand and communicate to their buyers in particular, that you know, sitting on the sideline is is fine if your will Looking to lose a property, but with with restricted inventory, and the fact that there is multiple offer situations going on at, you know, sub, you know, high the high sixes in the lending rates? You know, I think realtors have to readjust their own expectations and make sure that when they communicate to clients that they’re saying, Yeah, I know that seems like a high number for an interest rate. But you know, going back to something you always say about dating the rate marrying the home and understanding that, you know, yeah, we may pay a slight premium, maybe we’re paying over asking, or maybe we’re paying a higher interest rate because of where rates are currently. But we’re going to be able to, you know, adjust that interest rate down, most likely when when rates do in fact, come back. But this is, I don’t think this is a time to sit on the sidelines, because there’s just not that much inventory out there.

Joel Schaub 5:50
And the ones that are jumping in, and what we really need to do is design offers that are going to win, right? How many agents out there listening, are submitting offers, and we’re losing, right? We don’t want to lose if we’re gonna go try to help our clients, we want to win offers, and we don’t want to be the one that is always coming in with the highest offer. All right. So I wanted to just share two strategies that we can do right now. And when we hear that dreaded, I’m calling for the highest and best, right, it seems like agents are doing that. The day they put it on the market. They’re saying, Okay, here’s an offer. And the agent comes back and says we’re looking for highest and best. So it’s the second word, it’s the best, right? So I don’t always want my clients winning by being the highest, I want to go in and say that we’re better than the other offers. And one of the ways that we do that is the strength of the pre approval letter. Right? Having the financing look as strong as possible is going to help you win here, are we going to be able to compete with a cash offer? Probably not. Right. But I just had one last week where we were not the top offer. We were really strong on the financing. And the most cash, the highest cash offer was about 10 grand less than ours. So we won even though we weren’t the highest financed offer, we were better than the cash offer. And it’s because we showed a strong downpayment, the property address on the pre approval letter. In other words, we were buttoned up, when all the other offers weren’t as strong, we looked like we were the easiest option for the seller, that will get to the bottom line. And so

D.J. Paris 7:25
not all three of not all pre approval letters are created equal. Right? Like, it’s important to to, you know, read, if you’re working with a lender, and you know, they’re going to be putting out pre approval letters, you do want the actual address of the property on the letter, that’s a significant thing. Because of course, that that that communicates a message to the seller,

Joel Schaub 7:52
the seller actually called because they do good sellers do if you’re listening, you know, you call and the other bank had a stale letter from over four weeks ago, they had an old rate, they weren’t convinced the buyers and even been in contact with the bank recently, where our letterhead, today’s date, it had the property address, it was all specific. And it encouraged the listing agent to actually reach out to me if they had any questions to make sure this deal went through. So working with a lender that will do that. And you guys have mortgage partners right now that are just dying to help you. So make sure that when you’re submitting your offer, you’re calling back that mortgage professional that you’re working with. And having them put today’s date on the letter, having them put the property address so that you can put together a nice package with a bow on top that looks better than every other offer. And I’m telling you that is better than coming in 50 grand over with a stale letter that doesn’t really match up.

D.J. Paris 8:50
Yeah, because if it’s a stale letter, and you know, it doesn’t look to be specific to the property or current, then then you have to investigate. Now the seller has to do homework and now they have to reach back out go, is this still is this current is this the right rate is still valid. And you never want a seller, especially in a multiple offer situation to have to do extra work because you didn’t you and your lender didn’t, you know, have an updated sheet?

Joel Schaub 9:19
Absolutely. And so what we’re doing now is I speak to the borrowers about what is the maximum amount that they would be comfortable putting down we need to stand out. So the idea right now, or 20% down being enough, maybe it is, but I’ve won a lot of deals recently where the buyer put down 30 or 40% on the pre approval letter not really stands out. It’s really saying look at this buyer, look at how strong they are. And I’ll remind you that if you have a pre approval letter that says that you’re 40% down, it doesn’t lock you into having to put 40% down on the loan. Okay, so if you can put your strongest offer forward, and the contract comes in, the borrower could still decide to get loan for more than that. You’re not lying, you’re not doing anything wrong in terms of the contract, but it helps you get this offer accepted. So being strong, finding alternative ways to make sure that you stand out, is the way that you’re going to submit offers that are designed to win. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. So let’s talk about buy downs as well. Okay, so we’ve touched on this before. But right now, one of the big chief complaints that buyers have is, I don’t want a 6.5% rate this is, you know, I currently am in a mortgage that the rate is 3%. So it’s a major change for me to go from 3%, all the way up to six and a half percent, right. So what we’re having a lot of sellers do is fund a to one rate by down. So I’ll give a quick example here. A buyer that’s let’s say, let’s say they’re buying an $800,000. Home with 20%, down at a six and a half percent rate, that mortgage payment is $4,102 4102. Okay, the same buyer could literally go up and buy a $936,000. Home. So DJ, almost 150, grand more, if the seller did a to one buy down for them, they literally would have a mortgage of 3910. So they would be less in terms of the monthly payment. And the seller is the one funding the rate by down. So it’s just a big strategy right now, not all sellers are going to do this for you. But if you can get in the habit of finding out what sellers would fund rate by downs for your clients, it is a big win for these buyers that are kind of maybe sitting on the sidelines, right?

D.J. Paris 11:41
How would you encourage a seller to explore the buyout option?

Joel Schaub 11:46
Well, it’s all about net dollars to the seller, right? There’s no magic in this right now. So if a net buyer down on that scenario for that $936,000 purchase, ended up being about 18 grand and credits that the seller needed to pay, and that would be about a little over 2% of the purchase price. In these hot multiple offer situations, you’re probably not going to win. If you come in and submit an offer that needs a seller funded by down they’ll probably laugh at you. They’ll say why would I want to go with this when I have three other offers that aren’t being complex. But this is a situation where maybe there aren’t any other offers DJ, and our buyer says I’m willing to pay the listing price if the seller funds rate by down, okay, so if you’re an agent out there, this is not an offer. It’s not a strategy for multiple offers. This would be more where you know that there’s not any other offers, let’s submit an offer as close to the asking price, but ask for some concessions.

D.J. Paris 12:45
Yeah, that makes sense. And that’s a good good thing to realize, if anyone out there who is dealing with listings that are sitting and are not not getting enough attention from buyers, this is a great strategy to start talking to buyers, sorry, started talking to sellers about to present that option to a buyer, this idea that we can we can help you with this uncomfortable, you know, mortgage payment, basically, for the next year or two, I think that is an exceptionally creative way to help people or, you know, bridge that sent days. And now we’re in the sixes.

Joel Schaub 13:23
And so the strategy here is, instead of just taking 18 grand off the price, because if the client was able to get an 18 grand credit to fund the buy down DJ, they would have also been able to pay 18 grand less for the home, right? So let’s actually just do the math on this for a moment. So if you’re listening 18 grand off, the price would be somewhere around 160 to $170 a month cheaper in terms of payment number 160 or 170 grand. But if you actually took that 18 grand and use the temporary rate by down strategy in year number one, the rate going from 6.5 down to 4.5 saves the client 910 bucks.

D.J. Paris 14:07
Right. And that’s a monthly number is the number that they care about. Right? We all look at our monthly out and in with respect to income and expenses. And so yeah, being able to cut a smaller check for a few years and hoping that you know the rates change and fall favorably during that time to where you can then refinance into a more comfortable long term strategy.

Joel Schaub 14:32
So let’s be clear, this is not a strategy where we’re not comfortable with what the payment is Anyway, okay, because this is not an excuse to get in over your head. Okay, let me be very clear. This is not a strategy where Oh, I absolutely need the seller to fund the buy down otherwise I’m uncomfortable. Okay. We don’t want to put our buyers into a bad position ever. We want our clients comfortable with the payments where the rates are today. We want to see if the seller wants to fund a buy down instead of taking A price reduction. And if so it’s hundreds of dollars in the clients favor terms of a monthly payment. And so it’s icing on the cake. All right, that’s the idea behind the to one rate down strategy, because I hear it all the time they go, Well, what happens in two years the rates are gonna go, your payment is going to be higher. It’s not like an adjustable rate mortgage, where all of a sudden, we’re afraid that rates are gonna go up. We know what the rates are, we’re locked in, this isn’t a way to get a reduction for the first year or two. And if we can get that paid for by the seller, everyone smiles.

D.J. Paris 15:38
Yeah, it definitely makes sense. If you were an agent right now, Joe, what would you incorporate? What would you encourage our listeners to start doing? As like, you know, a regular exercise to help keep the business moving forward?

Joel Schaub 15:53
Yeah, I mean, right now, you gotta literally look at what the client’s bottom line number is. That’s the big thing, right? You’re so right, when you say they look at what the payments are per month, right. And there’s a payment shock right now, just a traditional like first time homebuyer that’s buying a three or $400,000 home, their mortgage payments from being in the low threes or below to where they’re at now. They’re eight or $900 more a month for that home, that’s going to keep certain people on the sidelines. Okay? So you got to see if you’re a seller that has a property that’s not moving, doing a price reduction is really not going to move the needle much. We just talked about that. Right. So exploring the ways that you can say, seller to buy the rate down, people are all talking about rates right now. So if you can get in that language and say, reduced rates for the buyer of this property, you can put it in the MLS. It’s just another way to get interest in the property. And you got to understand that though, you have to understand what that to one rate buydown is. So that’s why I wanted to go slow and walk through how that worked. And make sure that sellers can maybe use this strategy to move a property that’s not moving.

D.J. Paris 17:05
Yeah, I also think to like, it’s an interesting time to reach out to homeowners, and to talk about the lack of inventory in the market. Because being that we are seeing multiple offers, it’s it’s a heck of a good time to consider listing a property, it’s it’s a difficult time finding a new property. So there’s there’s push and pull to all of this. But a good loan officer can sit down with a current homeowner and say, well, let’s figure out with your realtor, what we think we can get for this property based on current market trends. And then let’s figure out based on rates and availability of an inventory, what our next move is our next biocide transaction is. And it might make sense because, again, there’s just, it’s just one of those things where you have to kind of run the numbers. But this is where you really need a really dedicated a loan officer who’s able to sort of crunch those numbers to see, hey, it is a good time to actually list the property, even though we’re in high interest rates, low inventory, you’re gonna get more for your sale, it’s going to even out possibly on the buy side in the future. And then maybe you can even find a buy down situation if the seller is willing to do that, too. But I guess the point is that it’s we need to be very careful not to just say rates are high inventories low, like Yes. And it’s that old, you know, way of, of doing improv, right? Yes. And, yes, that’s true. And, and we can still find opportunities here and that people still need to move. And sometimes it makes sense to sell when there’s not much inventory, even though the rates are high and inventories low.

Joel Schaub 18:47
I gotta Yes. And for you, that makes perfect sense. The client says rates are high and inventories low. And you’ll say, you know, I don’t want to pay a six and a half percent rate and you’ll say, Yes, and your rate right now on rent is 100% interest because you’re paying every single dollar right to your landlord. And I like the idea of paying six and a half percent a lot better than I like being 100%. You put it in those terms, it’s really starts to sink home, what somebody’s paying for rent versus what they can actually get when they start owning a property.

D.J. Paris 19:18
I think I think there’s such an opportunity for because I didn’t know this until I owned a property. Nobody. I don’t know, maybe I’m just a dummy. And, uh, well, I’m a little bit of a dummy. But I suspect there’s a lot of people like me, so I’m not the only dummy out there that literally didn’t know about mortgage interest deduction when it comes to tax time. I didn’t know when I was renting because no one ever told me and I’d never had that experience. And then all of a sudden I got the nicest gift. You know, the next April after I bought my first property a million years ago. It’s like, whoa, what’s this? I get some money back and that’s something that I know that’s not necessarily going to get somebody to want to buy a property just for that alone, but that Here’s a nice benefit that I feel doesn’t get talked about enough. If you are taking out a loan.

Joel Schaub 20:06
I always break it down in this in real simple terms for a first time homebuyer and numbers that agents can repeat. Okay, because it’s hard to understand this interest deduction what what the hell? are we actually talking about interest? Taxes, right? Are we talking property taxes? Are we talking federal income, right? So, here it is, in a nutshell, if you’re an agent, and you want to be able to recreate this and explain it, and so we’re gonna use a real small numbers, we’re gonna say, a buyer that’s making 60 grand on a W two job, right, that now takes on a mortgage. And let’s say they have $10,000 of interest that they paid in year number one, well, before they had the mortgage, they paid federal income taxes, DGN, all 60 grand of their income, all right. But next year, since they’ve already paid $10,000 of interest, instead of paying taxes on all 60 grand, they’re only going to pay taxes on $50,000 of income. And this is not a CPA answer, right? This is not the exact numbers but this is the way that you can explain it so that you’re coming across educated, okay, and making sure that you’re teaching buyers exactly what interest deduction is in real simple terms.

D.J. Paris 21:20
Yeah, basically reduces your tax liability for income. And it’s it’s a fantastic thing, thankful thing that we should be very grateful for to our country, because it does make us all a little happier come tax refund time, but it’s also something that I get, I think that most renters are unfamiliar with. So it’s a nice little sort of add on to making, you know, the point that homeownership historically is a much better investment than renting, which we know is not an investment.

Joel Schaub 21:56
DJ, I’m so glad you said that. Because there’s so many people that are buying right now and and before we wrap up, I really wanted to hammer home the idea for buyers that they don’t need a large downpayment. All right, and I wanted to talk a little bit about the changes in mortgage insurance, because there’s so much misinformation out there on this. Okay. So most people think you need to have 20% down, right. And a lot of people have learned that maybe you don’t and agents out there, we all know that you don’t need 20% down. But it is crazy to me the number of first time buyers that still have this as a fallacy. Okay, sure. The next fallacy is that if you don’t put 20% down, let’s say we are a first time homebuyer doing a $300,000 purchase, and we’re going to put 15 grand down is my favorite kind of buyers, they’re going to buy, they don’t need anywhere near 20% down. And they’re always shocked to find out how low their mortgage insurance is because the online calculators overestimate this sure like crazy. A mortgage insurance for a $300,000 place with only 5% down might be 70 or $80. Okay, but everyone, everyone in their mother, everyone in their brother remembers when mortgage insurance was three or $400 a month. And so they’re hearing two different things, you got to put 20% down, because the mortgage insurance is too high. It’s really truly not the case, mortgage insurance rates have continued to go down. There’s a lot less volatility with people defaulting. And when there’s less defaults on mortgages, because values are going up, the rates are lower. And so you would be hard pressed to find a mortgage insurance that costs three or $400. So it’s a really good thing to sit down and talk to your mortgage guy that you’re usually working with, and have an understanding of how much mortgage insurance is for the price point that you’re at in your market so that you can speak intelligently to buyers because that objection will come up DJ.

D.J. Paris 24:02
There is yeah, there is a lot of resistance. You’re right there is a psychological hurdle to accepting privatized mortgage insurance. And I know when I when I got my first condo, I couldn’t afford to put 20% down. And this was back in 2005 or six and, and so I did have to pay PMI. And I remember there was a little bit of like, Oh, I’m doing this wrong, I’m doing something wrong. Because my ello at the time my loan officer was was not particularly skilled at like walking me through like, No, don’t worry, it’s no big deal. And it really was no big deal even back then. But it so I think I think there is like a lot of education that needs to happen. And this is where the realtor and the loan officer can step in and help you know Coach the client through because I remember feeling like a little bit of shame that I couldn’t put 20% down because I had been conditioned to think that was what you were supposed to do. That’s what a responsible homebuyer does and the real Aldi about Joe’s Joe’s. laughing because he’s like that has nothing to do with responsibility. You know, either you have the money or you don’t. But there are creative ways to do it. And so I had to do it with a second loan to cover the PMI. And it really did not negatively affect my lifestyle or, or my homeownership in a negative way at all. But I had that psychological hurdle to jump over. So as realtors, we need to recognize those hurdles when when they come up in buyers and recondition them to explain that you’re right, you don’t, you don’t need 20%. And not only do you not need 20%, it’s not necessarily a horrible thing that you don’t have it.

Joel Schaub 25:41
And there’s so many times where I talked to the parents of somebody who’s buying a home. So they’re young, first time homebuyers. And maybe the parents are giving a gift DJ. And they remember when mortgage insurance was high, when it really was throwing money out the window. Sure, okay. So they’re not wrong when they tell their son or daughter, oh, you’re talking to a mortgage guy, and they’re telling you to do mortgage insurance. Oh, so they were right for their time, mortgage insurance used to be on a $300,000 loan three or $400 a month. So when they’re being told all their son or daughter is told to go get mortgage insurance. Of course, it sounds like a scam. Of course, it sounds like I want to give the downpayment money and help them but I talked to so many of them. And what they find out is when they actually see the mortgage insurance numbers that they wouldn’t be presented, they no longer want to give the big gift to their son or daughter. So then then they end up loving me, because times change. And things change and need to be what’s current right now. And mortgage insurance rates have continued to come down. And that’s something that a lot of people that bought 10 years ago or 20 years ago, just wouldn’t be privy to. So now you are on this and you’re listening now, you know, as well, that mortgage insurance rates are as low as they’ve been.

D.J. Paris 26:58
Yeah, it’s, it’s a good time to, it’s the best time to not have 20% If you don’t have it. And again, these are all just little norms that we have to challenge from time to time. And this is why having a relationship with an ello who can keep you up to date on the current trends and keep adjusting a realtors understanding of what’s going on in the lending world is so, so critical. So this really brings us to a great point, Joel and his team send out a weekly recap of what’s going on in the mortgage world so that you as a realtor know, some data points, some some quick sort of, you know, tick tock style, you know, sort of quick and easy and important, you know, sort of little little data points to be able to explain to keep you and your clients up to date. So Joe, what’s the best way somebody can get on that mailing list?

Joel Schaub 27:49
Well, yeah, DJ, the mailing list actually just did three weeks ago talked about the mortgage insurance, I got a crazy amount of replies for agents to say, I did not know that I’m still in the old school thinking in terms of mortgage insurance being a lot higher. So you can email directly to me, and I’ll put you on the list. It’s Joel JOE l@rate.com. So really easy, Joel at r a t.com. And even if you’re just on your phone right now listening to this, you can drop an email. And in the subject line, it just says please add me, right. And then in the body, it’ll say, please add me to your newsletter. And it’ll be very straightforward. And then you’ll be able to have dissect double easy tidbits that you can share on a weekly basis without getting so caught up in the minutiae of the mortgage business. It’s something that you can speak to and say, every week, I learned something, and it’ll help you grow your business for sure.

D.J. Paris 28:45
And if you are also interested in partnering with a loan officer who’s going to actually help you grow your business, Joel and his team, this is really what they do exceptionally well. So if you’re looking to form a partnership, and see if you guys can coordinate together to improve both production on your side and on the loan side, reach out to Joel he and his team would love to speak with you. Guaranteed Rate, of course, is is eligible to practice in all 50 states. But Joel, what is the best way someone should reach out to you if they want to work on a partnership?

Joel Schaub 29:21
Yeah, you can email me directly and then you could even phone me 773-654-2049 You’ll be shocked that we actually answering return phone calls, and the buyers that you refer over, I can waive the fees for them. So I’ll give a $1,500 closing cost credit. And now as an agent, you’ll say I have a lender that’s in my corner that will help the buyer pay no points get their lender fees waived and the only expense that they would have to do their first transaction with us is the appraisal cost. So it’s a big win for you. And it’s a good way for us to start building a relationship.

D.J. Paris 29:57
And guys the way that you can help Joel be able to continue to offer those kinds of discounts is by helping our show grow and reach more listeners and viewers. So please tell a friend about the show. Think of one other realtor, maybe somebody who’s maybe a little bit pessimistic or negative right now there’s, there’s a lot to be pessimistic and negative about. But this episode might just, in fact, turn their mindset around. So tell other agents about our show just how one other agent is all that we ask. And also sign up for Joel’s newsletter by emailing joel@rate.com. And get that weekly update and reach out to him as well. If you want to partner and do some cool events together, nobody does events like Joel and his team, they’re incredible. And they’re, they’re here in Chicago. And Joe’s team is really nationwide. But here in Chicago, I get to get to go to some of Joe’s events, and oh, my goodness, are they a lot of fun, and they work for everybody. So reach out to Joel, if you don’t have a good relationship with a loan officer, or if you’re looking to see what other loan officers can do for you reach out to Joel and guaranteed rate because they’re just they’re just top top of top class. And so I couldn’t encourage you to do that more. So please do that. Tell a friend about the show and a great place to wrap up. So Joel, on behalf of the audience, thank you for coming on. Once again, you’ve been with us almost since the very beginning, we I was going to read a fan letter, but we will get to that on our next episode. I wanted to share it because we do get fan letters and I never read them. So I wanted to share that next time we come on we’ll do that. And but I wanted to thank you on behalf of the audience because the audience is so grateful that you do come on every month. And I want to make sure that we acknowledge droll. And then of course we want to acknowledge you the listener for coming on listening and absorbing this information. And hopefully, it’s helping you increase your business and making you more productive and hopefully more money as well. So thank you to the listeners. And thank you to Joel. We will see everybody on the next episode. So thanks so much. And Joel we’ll see you next time.

Joel Schaub 31:57
Thanks so much for having me on DJ

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