How To Grow Your Business Even When Rates Are Rising • Learning With A Lender • Joel Schaub

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Welcome to the August episode of Learn With A Lender with Joel Schaub of Guaranteed Rate!

In this episode Joel discusses what’s going on in the lending world. Joel focuses on why agents should center their attention on the next 6 to 12 months rather than the next sale they will get. Joel also discusses how with the market slowdown this is the time to start creating content for your clients to provide valuable information. Joel and D.J. discuss the situation in the renting market at the moment. Last, Joel explains what Lender Introduction Template is, how agents can subscribe for it and also discusses his weekly newsletter.

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at joel@rate.com and 773.654.2049.

This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks and FollowUpBoss.


D.J. Paris 0:00
With rising interest rates, what do you tell your clients? And more importantly, how do you keep your business thriving? We’re going to talk about that today. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? Do you have the right tools? Is your website turning soft leads and interested buyers? Are you spending money on leads that aren’t converting? Well real geeks is your solution. Find out why agents across the country choose real geeks as their technology partner. Real geeks was created by an agent for agents. They pride themselves on delivering a sales and marketing solution so that you can easily generate more business. There agent websites are fast and built for lead conversion with a smooth search experience for your visitors. Real geeks also includes an easy to use agent CRM. So once a lead signs up on your website, you can track their interest and have great follow up conversations. Real geeks is loaded with a ton of marketing tools to nurture your leads and increase brand awareness visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod and find out why Realtors come to real geeks to generate more business again, visit real geeks.com forward slash keeping it real pod. And now on to our show.

Welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Harris, I’m your guide and host through the show today, once again is our monthly series called Learn with a lender with Joel shop from guaranteed rate. Now Joel is vice president of lending at guaranteed rate. He’s been doing loans at a high level since 2003. And he’s got to that level because of what he does specifically for agents, which is he gives back part of his commission to the agents buyer on every transaction. So last year alone, Joel gave back $291,000 In closing costs to buyers who worked with him and that puts Joe’s volume in the top 1% Sorry, top 1/10 of 1% of all lenders nationwide. In fact, out of 400,000 loan officers in the United States, Joel is currently ranked ranked number 137. Last year he closed 619 transactions, his highest amount ever for one year for $249 million. And already this year, Joel has closed 243 transactions for 98,000,093% of that were purchases. Now if you’re looking for a loan officer, we cannot more highly recommend Joel, he’s the very best we’ve ever worked with Joel can be reached via email at joel@rates.com J oel@rates.com. Or you can call him directly at 773-654-2049. Let’s say hello to the biggest Cubs fan. I know Joel sharp, D Day. Thanks so

Joel Schaub 3:06
much for having me on. And you’re right. It’s very fun when I hear the numbers. But none of that matters. I really like being on each and every month because it’s the time where we can get back and have a gentle literally learn something. Because when you’re in the business, you’re so focused on buying and selling, but sometimes you don’t have that mortgage side. So it’s really good to come on and get back.

D.J. Paris 3:28
Yeah, I think this is a great time to have a conversation about what’s going on in the lending world only because I’ve noticed this because I Well, you do as well. I hang out with a lot of realtors for different reasons that socially. We try not to but yes, they’re everywhere, right? You can’t avoid them. No, but some of my closest friends now are in the in the industry. And I have noticed that there is a general malaise or a little bit of a sort of sadness around the fact that rates are not what they were at the you know, one to two years ago, which of course they aren’t. But I find that agents tend to like carry that residue around with them like this is like horrible, awful news that is just making everybody’s life so much more difficult. And I always think it’s great to like reset and sort of reset and go back to our baseline expectation of what’s going on. Because I just have to think this must influence the way that a lot of realtors interact with their clients. Like if the realtor thinks oh, my god rates are 5% and above, then maybe they bring that energy to their client. And maybe it just doesn’t really help the process.

Joel Schaub 4:37
It doesn’t it’s all about mindset right now. So I’m throwing out the whole narrative that this is a bad problem to have that rates are higher, and the agents that I work with and I teach and I coach, we’ve completely thrown that narrative out that the mainstream media tells you that oh, this is a problem. All right. It’s actually a blessing. All right. I’ve said this to you but For I mean, I like buying my shirts on sale, and I like buying my shoes on sale. And now it’s an opportunity to finally to buy real estate on sale. And by that, I don’t mean that we’re going to see a big drop in values, everybody’s waiting. And I’ll tell you now, if you’re one of these agents telling buyers wait for values to drop, you’re wrong. I don’t anticipate value, they’re going to drop drastically. But what I do know and what we’ve already seen, TJ, is that it’s a hell of a lot easier to get an offer accepted today than it was six months ago when there were 10 offers on the table.

D.J. Paris 5:33
Yeah, I mean, look, it’s sort of the analogy of buying shirts on sale is such a great one. Because I was thinking, as you said that I really rather never buy something full price, right? Like anything in my life. I don’t care if it’s at the grocery store, and it’s a bag of carrots, or, you know, a home, I want something that appears to me psychologically, I want something to feel like I’m not paying full price. And of course, as we saw in that really extremely low, almost an it was an aberration. It wasn’t I don’t even I don’t even think it should be in the same history book as traditional rate rates, because it was so unusual that it really doesn’t, it almost doesn’t even deserve a chapter in history, in a sense, because it really sort of, you know, is going to color people’s expectations today. But you’re right. Yeah, I could have gotten a much lower rate two years ago, but boy, I would have been competing with a lot more people. And I probably would be paid up paid a lot more for that same property.

Joel Schaub 6:29
And why is it DJ that? Buyers? They have this anticipation, right? Let’s think of that. I want to buy something, but I only want to buy a few months ago when everybody was doing it. And now all of a sudden, when people aren’t buying, they’re like, oh, I don’t want to buy either. You see, it’s actually wrong. Right? Yeah, it’s the home and get a deal on the price, where I could refinance the debt down the line, then be the big winner that bought a home 50 grand more than it was worth. So looking forward, if I’m an agent, I’m literally preaching this story. Um,

D.J. Paris 7:03
yeah, it’s a story that that needs to continue to be reinforced, because you’re absolutely right. You know, I was in a former life, I was a financial advisor. And, you know, one of the most, I was not a stockbroker, I wasn’t picking individual equities, or, you know, or bonds, there’s just not what I did, I’m more managed somebody’s net worth. But it is, it is psychologically difficult to think, Oh, I really need to buy when it’s low and sell high. We all know that intellectually, but it is a difficult thing. Because it you know, it’s why a lot of people lost money in crypto, because as as crypto exploded in value, and price, people started to jump in at the end, which was the wrong time to get in. And of course, with crypto, you know, any, any anything can happen. But you know, even in the traditional stock market, this idea of buying something when it’s undervalued is hard psychologically. So I understand the hurdle that the agents and have to sort of jump over for their client. But it’s, it’s a really important hurdle to jump over. Otherwise, you’re going to be as upset as the client might be.

Joel Schaub 8:07
If I’m an agent, right now, the number one thing that I would be doing is planning for the next six to 12 months. And what I mean by this is actionable steps to put out marketing and branding, where you’re not trying to get a sale today. I’ll repeat this, I know how hard it is, we want sales today. But you want to actually be building your pipeline for six to 12 months and think of this net that you could cast if you’re letting buyers know that you’re not desperate for the business today, and that you’re actually in their corner to help them when the time comes to finding the right property. I would work with somebody like that a lot more than somebody that says today’s the right day to buy, now’s the best time to buy. And guess what, when a buyer is working with you, and they want to maybe buy in the next six to 12 months, a good majority of them are gonna buy sooner, they really will, right. But making a strategy and doing social media posts, videos and actually talking about the future. And say, when there’s a little bit of snow on the ground, and I’m talking, you know, we’re here in the Midwest, so it’s not that far away. When we get to November and December here in Chicago, we definitely get snow on the ground. And traditionally, we do see a lot less inventory and the properties that are on sale, actually sell for Left, right. So teaching and educating that there’s an opportunity coming up. And if they buy sooner, that’s great. But I wouldn’t be doing videos once a week right now about are you thinking about buying the next six to 12 month, reach out to me. And then you start building a database of people that are ready, willing and able, some of whom will buy sooner, but you’re teaching and you’re educating about where the properties will be at six to 12 months from now. And there’ll be a lot less offers than there were six to 12 months ago.

D.J. Paris 9:56
I hadn’t experienced yesterday I just really want to quickly share because it was such an unusual experience, I had to go see a dermatologist. It was a specialist down at, at Northwestern. And I hadn’t ever been to this particular clinic before it, it was it was an older gentleman, he was in his 70s. And he actually took me into his office, which I always have seen that movies where you sit across the table from the doctor and you see their office, but I’d never actually realized I’ve never actually been in a doctor’s true office. And he sat down, he was an older man, I’m guessing in his 70s. And we were talking about this really like no big deal thing that that I was there to see him about. And he spent 10 minutes would be and and he did most doctors, you know, they’re so skilled. And they know what you have at the moment you walk in, and they’re like, I know what that is. It’s this, we’re going to treat it with this. But this guy didn’t do that. He was like, I’ve been doing this for two years. And I’m not totally sure what what your situation is right now. And as I was explaining it to him, he was listening. He would pause he would I would he would ask me a question, I would answer him. And he would take that information and pause and look up to the ceiling and go, Oh, okay, huh. And he would pause for about 10 seconds. And I realized I’m watching this guy think. And it was really, really, it was really exciting in a way. And it also was really comforting. And I was like, This guy’s thinking about me and trying to figure out the best solution for me. And he was clearly doing this, this this sort of, you know, intense sort of evaluation in his mind. And I was I was there to watch it. And then he called in, he was like, I gotta call a colleague, and I want a colleague to get his opinion on this. And he calls in his son who happened to work there as well, son comes in, and they’re talking about it. And it was one of the best experiences I’ve ever had. Because I thought, wow, this guy really cares. He’s really thinking about this silly little problem. It’s not a life or death big. It’s a totally no big deal thing. But he’s really taken seriously. And I just was like, God, I’m gonna be with this guy for the rest of my life. Like, it was such a great experience. And I thought, boy, realtors could do this exact same thing and the good ones do. I want to pause for a moment to talk about our episode sponsor are one of my favorite companies out there follow up boss. Now after interviewing hundreds of top Realtors in the country for this podcast, do you know which CRM is used by more than any other by our guests. Of course, it is a follow up boss. And let’s face it, following up is the key to taking your business to the next level follow up boss will help you drive more leads in less time and with less effort. Do not take my word for it. Robert slack, who runs the number one team in the US uses follow up boss and he has built a one and a half billion dollar business in just six years. Follow up boss integrates with over 250 systems, so you can keep your current tools and lead sources. Also, the best part they have seven day a week support. So you’ll get the help that you need when you need it and get this follow up boss is so sure that you’re going to love their CRM that for a limited time, they’re offering keeping it real listeners a 30 day free trial, which is twice as much time as they give everyone else. And oh yeah, no credit card required. So you can try it risk free. But only if you use this special link visit follow up boss.com forward slash real, that’s follow up boss.com forward slash real for your free 30 day trial. Follow up like a boss with follow up boss. And now back to our episode.

Joel Schaub 13:21
I like those awkward pauses. People are afraid to have silence. But think of this, you’re gonna live in a home for 10 years. And you’re afraid of somebody being silent for 10 seconds to think about your situation. The people that actually know what they’re doing take time to think about a situation because they don’t have a predetermined plan. The moment that you reach out, everything should be individualized. So as an agent, the one of the reasons as a mortgage professional, I was able to do 10 and $20 million a month was each scenario was different. I took my time and I listened. Whereas every other mortgage professional just talks and talks and talks. They don’t give the buyer a chance to actually explain what they need. So if you can listen and hear what they need, you’re really going to set yourself apart.

D.J. Paris 14:10
And I love this idea of creating content. Again, this is probably a time where the majority of our listeners and viewers have more time because the market slowed. You know, of course rates have increased inventory is still low. So there’s a lot of just more free time maybe than you would have and so, Joel, I think you’re absolutely right, such a great time to start creating educational content on social media. Tick tock if you’ve not a tick tock person, like it’s not going away and it’s becoming more and more and more and more popular and it doesn’t mean you have to be a 22 year old doing tick tock but but you want to speak to the next generation of homebuyers which this is the time because it people other realtors are going to start utilizing other platforms, younger platforms to get their message out. And you know the cool thing about places things like Tiktok and Instagram is you can cross post So you can actually take the same content, continue to repurpose it, use it. And you know, people are hungry for information. And I think this is a great a great opportunity to continue to tell people like, I know this stuff, I know what this stuff is, and I can talk about it.

Joel Schaub 15:18
Remember this phrase, right, and this is true, when we buy a piece of real estate, I want everyone to remember that you can marry the home and date the rate, okay, and start using that. And it’s really true. As silly as it sounds, we’re gonna marry the home, we’re gonna find the house that we love. But we know damn well that when rates come down, we’re going to refinance that loan, okay. And that’s the great thing about mortgage financing in the United States, okay. And you can always find a good mortgage professional that doesn’t charge to do a refinance. And now that’s big business, for the banks and all that. But if you’re doing the purchase mortgage, you should be able to get a mortgage professional, that will waive the costs for a refinance. And at a minimum, maybe it cost three or $400 to do an appraisal again, but other than that, work with a mortgage team, and somebody that will absolutely help your clients, buy the home, live in it. And when rates do come down, make sure that they go right back to that mortgage professional to lower the rate. And pick a rate where you don’t have to pay any fees. And maybe it’s just a bit above the lowest rate in the market. But there’s always opportunities that select an interest rate where you’re not paying closing costs. And that’s important

D.J. Paris 16:30
that marry the home date, the rate is such a great expression. And it really is exactly the truth. Because rates, of course, fluctuate, things fluctuate home is pretty, uh, pretty much considered a permanent, at least, maybe you don’t live there permanently. But it’s a permanent structure. It feels like it isn’t moveable. But but you know, when you date somebody, it may work out, it might not right, when you marry somebody, the idea is, of course, to be there for life. So, obviously, everyone understands this metaphor, I don’t need to explain it. But I think it’s such a great one, because it really is exactly the truth, right? The rates come and go, people come and go, the rates come and go, and you’re going to be able to make adjustments along the way via refinance. So that’s that is such, that’s almost enough, I think, just to explain what we’re going to date, the rate, we’re not going to marry the rate, that should pretty much solve a lot of the conflict, I think, between realtors and their buyers at this point and say Don’t, don’t worry, we’re just dating the rate, we’re going to find you the perfect home. And that’s the most important thing. And and again, also, we hear rates are up. But Joel, you always say and I love this is you don’t write a check with the rate on it right to the bank, you really just care about the total amount that’s coming out of your bank account every month. And that’s the most important thing. And those oftentimes aren’t aren’t as exciting of news headlines, right? It’s not as exciting to say, well, the average person’s you know, payment monthly went up $200, you know, from when the rates were lower, whatever that number might be. That’s not exciting news to say, Oh, the rates jumped, you know, do 200 basis points in the last year, whatever. That’s exciting. That’s if it bleeds, it leads, you know, for news. So we have to sort of bring it back to reality, saying, Actually, we’re just going to date the rate. And the rates aren’t that high at all anyway, like they’re still fine. And having that conversation, I think is going to call the buyers down. So I think you’re right, and also just this idea of like, you know, who’s thinking about doing this over the next six to 12 months, that’s really, really great. And Realtors didn’t really have the time to do that maybe so much in the last couple of years. They were they were in go mode, and they didn’t have the time to go wondering who’s going to be buying in the next six to 12 months, they were just trying to get deals closed. So now’s the time.

Joel Schaub 18:41
And DJ in our market right now rents are just going up just as fast if not faster than these mortgage rates. And so at my level 90, I’d say 80 or 90% of the clients that I work with are first time homebuyers that need the education. So agents lean on me to actually help them understand the difference between renting versus buying. And when we run just a three to five year analysis. It doesn’t matter that mortgage rates are no longer in the threes or fours. The rent rate is 100%. When you’re paying a mortgage, you’re actually getting something back when you’re renting every dollar goes out the window and so just re emphasizing for first time homebuyers it’s worth it to take a look and see what we can afford on a monthly basis that’s similar or less than what you’re paying in rent and get ready for an opportunity in the next six months where I could put you on a list and show you different properties where you’re not throwing the money out the way on on rent.

D.J. Paris 19:38
Yeah and just having the conversation to to renters about interest and deductions is is a huge wonderful surprise to anyone when they buy their first home if they’re not aware. It’s a wonderful surprise come tax time. And this is something I didn’t even know before I bought a property I had no idea I mean I just I was in my A you know, I was 30 years old I think and just didn’t know anything about real estate and, and loans and I got one and then I was like, Oh my God, I wish I kind of wish somebody had told me all the cool tax benefits of owning. And it was up to me to figure it out. But this is an opportunity for people to educate, educate renters about it, I’ll leave you with this, my girlfriend who you know, are Aggie, she works at a an apartment building downtown at a like a luxury apartment building. And Joel was saying how rates are for rental rates are going up. And that is true, I can I can attest to that. This is how crazy the rental market is, at least at my girlfriend’s building here in Chicago, the rents the rent prices change, at least about once an hour, and they have 500 units there. The technology is so advanced for some of these management companies is they don’t just like okay, that’s you know, that’s the $2,000 a month apartment. And it just that’s what it is, oh, no, it’s evaluating every other property that in the area trying to figure out how to be competitive, and they all compete with each other, and it actually ends up driving prices up. So they’re constantly trying to squeeze as much as they can out of the renter. And now technology is doing it for them. So that’s another thing to consider too is, you know, is the rental technologies getting so much better, where it’s going to try to squeeze as much as they can. Now not not every landlord uses technology like that. But you know, a lot of apartment buildings do and it’s really, really interesting. So rent prices change, they they’re going to want to, you know, extract as much income as they care as much revenue as they can out of the tenant. This is a great time to think to really educate somebody about some of the benefits of homeownership. And not just it feels good to own a home. But like there’s some legitimate tangible benefits around taxes and, and things that I bet a lot of renters just don’t know all

Joel Schaub 21:49
about education. And if you’ve been a longtime listener of keeping it real podcast, you’ve heard me come on and talk about the weekly update that I send out. And so many of you have emailed us and said, Please put me on your list for that follow up. And they use the information that I put in bite sized pieces to disseminate on video or phone calls. And it just helps them so that you don’t need to be an expert in the mortgage market. But you got to have enough knowledge that you can talk to people about certain things in a way that’s not so cumbersome, and techie. So we’ve taken that list. And then I’ve also created another follow up that people are asking for, which is they want to refer somebody over to us and they want the link so that they can get the $1,500 closing cost credit. So you can email me, and I’ll give it away here. You can literally say send me the lender introduction template, and it’s my email at joel@rate.com. So J o el@rate.com. And that short for guaranteed rate, it’ll come directly to me and you will get a reply from me. And there’ll be a template. So if you have another buyer that really wanting some education, and wanting that first time homebuyer benefit, and somebody that’s really going to look out for them, you can introduce me, we’ll get them pre approved. And then we waive all the fees. So I give a $1,500 credit back. And this will be one of the benefits of you listening to the keepin it real podcast.

D.J. Paris 23:12
Yeah, thank you for that if I were an agent, if I was a listener right now, and I may be a little slower than than I was in the last couple of years, or maybe I’m new to the business and I’m slow because I’m new. I don’t have as much business, I would be signing up for Jill’s newsletter. So just send Joel an email joel@rate.com asked to be put on the weekly newsletter also asked for his introduction template like he’s he mentioned. And Joel sends out the rate update and sort of the bite sized piece of what agents need to know, every week. And I would watch for that email, I would take several bits and pieces I would use that as the content that I would post on social media. And so you don’t even have to like you were saying you don’t have to think of or analyze or be an expert on what’s going on in the lending world. Just take these bite sized pieces. That’s why Joel and his team make them that’s exactly the purpose is so that you can take them to your client and look like you’re the expert as opposed to Joel being the only expert Joel is an expert, but he also wants the agents to be experts too. So definitely sign up for that just email joel@rei.com asked to be put on both of those well the list and then also get the template he’ll send it out to you and then there you go. Now you’ve got your social media content content for you know, for the foreseeable future do it forever it I promise you most lenders don’t even do this. I’ve noticed very few lenders on social media even educate other than you know, Joel, I know you do too, but but Joel is one of the few people that even does it in his field. So you can do it, but it’s not a crowded field and your audience wants to learn.

Joel Schaub 24:44
And just remember this, okay, the sky isn’t falling right now you can be the bearer of good news and you can let people know that regardless of where the rates are at right now. Still going to be better than renting and it’s going to be a heck of a lot easier for you as an agent to submit an offer on a property He then it’s not over asking, Okay, now we’re getting back to the point where you could come in under asking and not get laughed out of the room. And as we continue to see these rates at these elevated levels, because it could be this way for two to three years, we will have the opportunity once the Fed gets it right, they’re going to cut rates. So hearing it here first, once the Fed has inflation under control, they have to cut rates. Everybody on our floor that on the trading in terms of mortgages, we’re already predicting when and there’s various ideas as to when the Fed will cut rates. But it’s not a straight shot up from here, when they continue to trend up for a while once inflation is under control, the Fed has to cut rates, and that’s going to be the floodgates are gonna open again. So in the meantime, let’s be happy with where we’re at. Let’s help as many buyers as we can right now. And let’s keep things positive.

D.J. Paris 25:58
Yeah, and just to sort of give one one another quick idea because Joe, you always You are the epitome of this you live this now’s a great time to give back especially if you have more more spare time and to incorporate your your client list or your prospect list, do events around a charitable acts. Maybe you’re maybe it’s even just hey, we want to go support this bar down the street. That’s, that’s struggling right now. So you can do you know, some sort of event there. You can partner with somebody like like Joel, of course, who would love to partner and do events with you. But now’s the time to really, you could do a charitable thing. Now’s the time to really do some good out in the world. And you have the extra time to do it. It’ll generate goodwill with your clients. And you know, again, I just think that that’s the one of the best things you can do to develop a stronger relationship with your contacts is do something together that creates good for the world. And you know, you’re pretty much guaranteed to have that person as a client for life. I think. I love

Joel Schaub 26:58
that you say that too. And you have more time right now you’re not submitting 10 offers right now, how many times do you lose, you submit an offer in the last year or two and your great offer and it reminds me of one of my favorite weird owl songs I lost on Jeopardy. The old my loves in jeopardy remake and it’s true. You put in a really great offer and somebody beats you. And now there’s not as many offers going in so you can help your clients you have extra time find ways

D.J. Paris 27:26
to give back. Well, Joel saying that it’s funny because we we were talking about this ahead of time, I’m actually going to see Weird Al tomorrow night in Grand Rapids of all places. So I am excited. It’s probably the 10th time number

Joel Schaub 27:39
one fan here guys number one fan. Last and something to DJ at the keepin

D.J. Paris 27:43
it real send me a week something weird. related. Anyway, yeah, well, up on it. I’m embarrassed to say how many times I’ve seen it, but it’s been it’s, it’s now double digits. So excited. But anyway, it’s a great, it’s a great point. And so anyway, don’t despair. This is not the time to despair, there may be a time at some point in history that we should despair, but it isn’t now. So don’t worry, shake off some of the the stress from the last couple of years and realize that things are actually easier now and in a way. So you know, embrace the easier, easier part of where we are today. And that won’t you won’t get stuck in the harder part of today as well. So anyway, everyone, yeah, everyone should should sign up for Joel’s newsletter. So just to send an email to joel@rate.com. Let him know that you want to be on his newsletter, and there’s your social media content. And that’s the end. Here’s your talking points for your clients right now that are that are thinking about, you know, what’s going on in the news. This is how you readjust their expectation. All right, Joel, this is a great place to wrap up. Always a pleasure chatting with you and excited to continue our relationship here on the podcast. So if anyone out there is looking to partner with a with a lending professional Joel’s the very best I’ve ever worked with. So reach out to him. joel@rate.com you can also call him Joe, what’s the best number for you and your team?

Joel Schaub 29:00
My direct line? 18 years 773-744-1968 You get me directly you just test me. We’re definitely there to help.

D.J. Paris 29:11
Awesome. All right. Well, on behalf of our audience that Joel, thank you very much for continuing. You’ve been with us for years and years. We greatly appreciate it. And on behalf of Joel and myself, we wouldn’t be able to do this without the listeners. So thank you for continuing to support and listen to our show and watch us support our sponsors support Joel support all of our guests that we have on the show. They’re the reason that we have content for the show. And we’re really grateful to Joel for doing that. So support Joel support our sponsors and continue to listen and please tell a friend just think of one other realtor that could benefit from hearing this who’s maybe a little bummed out right now because things are slower send this episode to them it will cheer them up and it will really reset them to you know a more positive headspace. So, anyway, Joel, thank you again and we will see everybody on the next episode. Thank you

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