How Real Estate Agents Can Hold Virtual Contests To Support Local Businesses • Learning With A Lender • Joel Schaub

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Welcome to the March episode of our Learn With A Lender series with Joel Schaub!

Joel Schaub from Guaranteed Rate discusses why some lenders (thankfully not Guaranteed Rate) are taking up to nine months to close on new purchases, and provides guidance on how agents can check-in with a lender to see the status of a loan. Since stimulus checks are on the way Joel also suggests reaching out to local businesses and purchasing gift cards to give away to your clients (or to host a contest). Great suggestions about how you can continue to thrive while stuck at home!

If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!

Joel can be reached at joel@rate.com and 773.654.2049.


D.J. Paris 0:00
This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by Joel Schaub at guaranteed rate. As a realtor it’s important to partner with only the most trusted name in mortgage lending. Joel has 1000s of satisfied clients and gives $1,500 of his commission back to your buyers on every closing. He is known for his ability to close even complex deals start to finish in only 14 days to learn what 1000s of others already know. Make a note to call Joel at 773-654-2049 or email joel@rate.com Guaranteed Rate is an equal housing lender licensed in all 50 States Consumer Access Number 2611 And now on with the show.

Welcome to keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris I am your guide and host through the show in quarantine like the rest of us today is our Learn with our lender our monthly episode with Joel shop guaranteed rate. So Joel is waving if you’re watching us live or on video here. But for everyone who is not yet familiar with Joel, Joel is a vice president of lending guaranteed rate. He has been doing loans at a high level since 2003. And it’s gotten to that level because of what he does directly for agents which is he gives back part of his commission to the buyer every single time. Last year alone Joe gave back over $291,000 in closing costs to buyers who worked with them. And that put Joe’s production in the top 1% of 1% Sorry, 1/10 of 1% nationwide. Just to show you what that number is out of 400,000 licensed loan officers in the United States. Joel is ranked number 181. I don’t even know what that percentage is. But it’s it is in a very tiny miniscule part of 1%. Year to date, Joel has done 71 sales transactions for just under 27 million and closings. He has currently 102 files that are set to close that are locked that are going to be closing in the next 60 days. The busiest man I know and the biggest Cubs fan I know but never too busy. Thankfully to do our show. Joel, thanks for being on. Welcome once again. DJ, you always do it

Joel Schaub 2:32
right. I’m so impressed by what the keepin it real podcast has become. We’re they’re giving back. We’re teaching we’re learning. And we’re all about education. I mean, that’s what this is on a monthly basis when we can come on and get together and actually share what’s happening because you hear things. But it’s actually good to actually get it right from the source and know what’s happening in the mortgage market. So that you as an agent, or as a buyer can have some firm understanding of what’s going on out there. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 3:03
first, we should say you’re working from home. I’m actually in the office, but the doors locked and barricaded. So no one can come in. But essentially, I’m working from home as well. But guaranteed rate, you guys are still going strong. You were just mentioning for people that are actually we did this before the episode you said 50 was at 5400 employees are now working virtually it’s business as usual. But of course, just working in a different way.

Joel Schaub 3:30
Yeah, we had to make a transition like everybody else out there. And in a 10 day period, we moved over 5000 of our employees nationwide from an office location to a at home work location. So it is business as usual. We hire only the best of the best. And the idea is that things are continuing to go on and even smoother in some cases. As far as the technology that’s getting advanced. I’m going to talk a little bit about what’s happening on appraisals right now. Oh, great. I’m going to talk a little bit about what’s happening as far as the ability to do documentation closings, right, so you can electronically sign a lot of the docs. And so not that there’s much it’s good, that’s come out of this COVID 19 pandemic, but there’s some things that I’m seeing that I know have really moved ahead. years. Okay, when we get out of this some of these things that we’re seeing right now, that’ll really be good for the real estate community as a whole.

D.J. Paris 4:25
Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know, now’s the time where if someone out there is a realtor who’s listening who has a buyer and is nervous, you know, I think now’s the time to look at these larger lending institutions that you know, have the support staff and, and the wherewithal to be able to withstand the changes in the market like your firm has. So I think it’s a great time to, to bank on on the proven lenders, like guaranteed rate.

Joel Schaub 4:52
Well, we just hope that none of the lenders out there go out of business. I mean, this is the time where it would be just a shame if some of these smaller banks that really do provide services to a lot of clients went out of business because of this, but we’re seeing a lot of runs on liquidity as far as the ability to close mortgages, because a lot of people work on a warehouse line, and they can’t produce more transactions until they clear their warehouse lines. And there’s gonna be some smaller places that just don’t make it through this. And that’s the that’s the sad part about this. So we’re not all cutthroat. Okay, it’s, we’re not all hoping that the competition goes away. We’re all in this together, there’s plenty of business for everybody out there. And if I’m an agent right now, and I have any offers that are in process, I’m taking the time to pick up the phone and call that lender and just say, hey, you’ll know a lot in that first few minutes on the phone just saying I just want to check in you have my buyer. This is the listing. I don’t usually make a phone call. But I just wanted to know, is everything going as planned? Okay, I would ask them two questions. Are the files is this current file out of underwriting? And do we have the appraisal back, and those are things that’ll, if I have a listing, and there’s a process in place right now that the closing might be in the next 30 or 60 days, take the time and just find out what’s going on on the other end of the phone? For the mortgage side of it, that’s important. And any good mortgage guy will pick up the phone and answer hopefully, to help you out.

D.J. Paris 6:24
And Joe, could you repeat those two questions just for listeners? Because I think those are key. So if you’re a realtor out there, and you’re well, just wanting to get a status update, or nervous or pick up the phone call the lender. And the two questions again, do you mind sharing?

Joel Schaub 6:36
Well, the first one, of course, DJs is my is the buyers file out of underwriting. It gets submitted to underwriting. Okay. And then the second one is, is the appraisal done, but if I’m the listing agent, I know if it was done or not, because typically they come into the house. But right now, they have so many abilities to do drive by appraisals, that if you’re a listing agent, you don’t even know if the appraisal got done. So you’re just inquiring whether or not the appraisal was done? And did it come in at value? So a couple of things that most lenders will be absolutely happy to help you.

D.J. Paris 7:09
Yeah, or at least at least the good ones. It’s funny, I not funny, but I heard that banks were being flooded with so much business due to all of the rate movement that’s been in the last, you know, four months or so that they’ve even started raising rates as a result of slowdown, the number of applications because maybe they’re just at capacity, like you were saying that the the warehouse, sort of, you know, structure, whereas places like guaranteed rate have continued to thrive and, and are, you know, still still getting loans closed at a good clip. But I do would like to talk to you about what’s changed as far as length of closing, what are you seeing out there? What’s what’s more common these days.

Joel Schaub 7:50
So this is where there’s a big dichotomy in the market between different banks, I just saw one of a competitor’s company that said they were taking between 150 to 180 days to process a refinance request, means that’s five or six months, wow, it said thank you for your request, a processor will reach out to you within 27 days, and based on our current turn times, we will close your file between 150 to 180 days. And it’s a sign of the times, right? Are you even gonna want to refinance in six months, right? It takes that long. And so what that means is that the refinance volume has driven up so much of the demand and the capacity for banks that the purchase business is falling behind. As an agent, what do you care about, you don’t care about refinances. You care about your client’s ability to close on a transaction. And so there’s still a lot of banks that can close in under 30 days on purchase transactions, if they have separated the way that we did, which was we have our own staff for underwriting for refinances, and a staff setup just for the purchases to keep those coming out in 24 to 48 hours. Wow.

D.J. Paris 9:04
Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s amazing. It’s so I bet you’re so grateful you work for a company with such great resources. You know, it’s, it’s it’s just remarkable. They continue to thrive. Talk a little bit about the the jumbo market, what’s changed there? I know, there’s been, you know, that’s sort of been turned around as well.

Joel Schaub 9:23
Yeah, DJ, you’ve seen this in the headlines a lot right now that anything that’s not a conforming loan amount and on a conventional mortgage that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy in Illinois, that’s 510,400. And since we have so many nationwide viewers and listeners, that is the average for a conventional mortgage 510 400. If you’re above that, you fall into that jumbo category. And those rates have just gone way higher, almost a full point higher than a conventional mortgage, because there’s no liquidity in the mortgage backed securities market so nobody’s stepping up to buy billions and billions of dollars of mortgage pools, if 25% of Americans don’t have a job, and they’re not able to make their mortgage payment. So, because of this uncertainty that we have, right now, the mortgages that used to be the second greatest investment tool behind a US Treasuries is no longer such a safe haven, there’s nobody out there buying them. So the only banks are the only one buying the loans from the bank. So the Fed, Federal Reserve stepped up and put in a big bazooka, they put in $50 billion of de liquidity to help buy up mortgage bonds. But that doesn’t affect anything that’s 800 900, a million to 2.5 million, those are all excluded. So those rates right now, for the foreseeable future are going to be a point higher give or take than what you’re seeing on a conventional mortgage.

D.J. Paris 10:54
Got it? Good. Interesting. That’s good to know. We talked about refi. It’s just a little bit earlier. But you know, what is going on? Right now, you mentioned, hey, some banks are taking, you know, six months is Have you seen the volume start to slow at all, due to our current pandemic? Or is that really not changed, the volume

Joel Schaub 11:15
rates are low. So buyers that bought in the last three years, they’re still calling left and right, they have a rate in the fours and just turn on the TV, you know, and you watch the markets. And you know that 30 year fixed rates are in the threes. And so that’s what’s driving the demand. We saw rates about two or three weeks ago that we’re even lower. And what I preach a lot is, How do we get a no cost? refi? Right, that’s always my focus. The banks and the advertisements and everything is focused. Yeah, they want you calling asking for that 3.25%, they’re gonna charge you 1000s of dollars to get it. Yeah. And that’s great. You can go brag to your friends on the golf course, if you’re allowed to ever leave your house again, I got that three and a quarter rate, but you paid for it, right. And so the idea was, could we instead of taking a rate of 3.2, take a rate of 3.3 or 3.5, for example, and get the bank to waive all fees, a lot of that stuff has really gone away, because the mortgage bonds right now don’t have the pricing at each different coupon level. So I think there’s going to be a time in the next 60 days, 90 days where things settle down, we’re going to see these rates with all the volatility come back down. And it allow for the refinance business to go through a lot more smooth. And I just don’t see any situation which rates spike, okay, the feds are there. They’re literally the lender of last resort, and they’ve stepped up and they’ve said, unequivocally they are buying mortgage backed securities to keep rates low. So I don’t see a situation where we got the jumbo spikes that we will have there in the conventional market. So first time buyers, you’re safe. Step Up buyers, as long as you’re not borrowing into that jumbo space, you definitely anticipate rates in the threes for the foreseeable future, which allows you to go out and buy a lot more house.

D.J. Paris 13:07
And what a great time to call, you know, since we’re all kind of locked in home on periodic zoom meetings. But between the Zoom meetings, everything life is just between zoom meetings now I think but but but during the that in between time, what a great opportunity for realtors to deepen those relationships with their sphere of influence. And whether somebody’s a renter, great time to talk about buying, whether they’re a current homeowner may be a good time to even just mention the word refinance with the right understanding that, you know, banks are backed up a little. But what a great time to just reach out and have those conversations, people have more time to think about it. Excuse me. And you’ve you’ve been saying this, ever since we’ve started doing this, I just want to remind our listeners great time to call and talk about it.

Joel Schaub 13:54
It gives you an opportunity to not call and talk about yourself as as professionals and you’re a real estate agent out there, you want to continue to provide value. And a buyer that closed a year or two ago, maybe you don’t have a reason to call them now’s the perfect opportunity just to say, first of all, are you safe, yeah is your family and those types of things. We’re kind of doing it all on a superficial level with you know, social media, but just to literally pick up the phone. And even if you get a voicemail, we’re just thinking of you. I want to know how your family is doing. And just so that you know market rates are low, I’m sure that it’s a good time for you to reach back out to your bank and just encourage your buyers, whatever bank they had, if they had a good experience, pick up the phone and ask them if they can do a refinance right now. If you’re the reason that a buyer saves a couple $100 A month they’re gonna remember

D.J. Paris 14:49
you. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And it’s funny too, because with this group, I was thinking about this. I’ve said this a few times on recent episodes, I’ll mention it again, talked about Reaching out just to check in. And of course check on the safety and well being of the people that you care about your, you know, your clients, your contact list, your sphere of influence family, friends, etc. And I was thinking like, Okay, I have all these business relationships, people, I pay fees for even some on an annual basis. There’s no insurance, and there’s financial advisors, and, you know, dentists and, you know,

your Harris’s and whoever. Yeah.

So funny. You mentioned that. Yeah, so thank you, because the only person, my accountant, right, all of these services that I pay fees for, and some of them are, I pay small fees, and others larger fees. But regardless, I was like, I wonder who’s ever going to reach out to me if anyone and check in to see how I’m doing. And the only person that has is the person that cuts my hair. And she checks she sent me a text, how’s it going, just checking in and you hope you’re safe and healthy. I’ve been going to her for like 10 plus years. But she has lots and lots of clients. And I you know, the only person and I thought this is not a crowded space. Everyone got emails from the companies that they support going, here’s what we’re doing. And those obviously became overwhelming. But how many individual reach you know, touches did I get as a result of this, this current situation was one. And she’s probably the one I paid the least amount to, as far as total amount in fees I pay. But it meant a lot to me. And it made me feel like she cared about me. And he you have an opportunity, every one of our listeners, as Jill just said, to reach out and just check in, whether it’s a phone call or text, I think a phone call makes sense these days. But that’s up to you. But to do the one thing that probably none of the other services they’re utilizing are doing. You know, so what a great idea. So thanks for that, Joel,

Joel Schaub 16:45
these companies, everybody’s sending you their message, letting you know what they’re doing, right, these big companies can do it. If I can get an email from the Holiday Inn Express in San Diego where I stayed one night because I missed the flight. I don’t care what you’re doing at that hotel, but you’ve taken the time to let me know, right? You’re seeing all those emails, actually take something out of it and make sure that you take your sphere of influence and reach out, it’ll mean something to those people. And that’s what we are in the day, we’re just people that are trying to make good connections, help people out. And there’s nothing just genuine about it. You know, most of you guys out there really care. And if you take some time, we’re all sitting at home. Right? We have time.

D.J. Paris 17:32
Yeah, the thing about caring is the kind of person that’s going to make that call is the person that cares. Like, it’s it’s you, the people that would do it in a disingenuous way just probably wouldn’t even do it. Because it’s it’s so counter to them. And they’re Yeah. But now’s the time to Yeah, as Joel said, show the heart that you have, and your clients know, you have. And you know, this is a great opportunity just to check in with them. And, and yeah, and then you get the tail end, you could tack on Hey, by the way, I was just thinking about you, if you you know, whether it’s a refinance, or a new purchase opportunity, you know, you can always throw that in if you’d like. But even you know, once we get through the end of this, you know, we were talking about this, my are the owner of our company, Nick. And we were going through some of our providers and working with them, because you know, all businesses are businesses has changed a bit. And about 90% of the service providers that we contacted, and said, Here’s what we’re going through, can you help us with this or that and defer a payment or however, and we’re certainly thankfully in good financial shape, but we were just checking to see what the options were 90% of those companies said no problem we’ll work with you don’t worry about it, the 10% we remember who those 10% are, and when we come out the other side of this, it might be an opportunity for us to re examine those relationships. My point is is is that you know, you can reach out and you can be that that sole provider to that person, there’s probably a lot of people that care about that person, that ad have business relationships, but who’s actually doing the reach out, might as well be you and and you will you will get so much from doing that. And that’s not the reason to do it. But that’s what will happen. When this all is over. They’re going to remember that you reached out and hopefully they would continue to use you in the future. So

Joel Schaub 19:13
So I want to give a tip and you’re exactly right. If I’m an agent out there right now, where are most of the eyes, right? They’re on their phones, you’re looking at social media. And so what I did recently is I created a giveback campaign, it’s called Joel gives back. And at the end of 30 days, we’ll have given 1000s of dollars to our local community in the food and service industries that literally are shut down. So these restaurants right now that are so vital to the your, your local economies where you guys live. Chicago is one of the best foodie type of towns there are okay, and all of these restaurants are really struggling. And so what we’ve done is a campaign to buy gift certificates from some of the restaurants that were the hardest hit, and then give them away And so we’ve done, we’re 15 or 16 days in every single day, we’re giving away $100. And by the time all is said and done, we’ll have donated 1000s of dollars back to the people that run the restaurants that need it. And then giving those gift certificates to people that are less fortunate so that they can put some food on their table and just relax, you know what it’s like to make meals 15 days in a row, I mean, take some time. And so the point here is, you don’t get to do it that many days in a row, go and buy a gift certificate to one of your favorite places, and then raffle it off online and just say, who needs it the most, or make a fun game out of it. And just show that you’re charitable, I promise you, it’ll go a long way, as an agent, find ways to give back. I bring it up almost every time that we’re on here. But it’s a givers gain mentality that will get you through this.

D.J. Paris 20:52
Yeah, and to, you know, when you’re doing that as a marketing opportunity, obviously you’re doing it to give back but to promote it. Definitely let the the establishment for example, if it’s a restaurant, let them know, Hey, I’m going to be raffling this off, I’m going to tag you in the post, if you want to share it with your customers, we’d be honored to have anyone Welcome to do the contest. And you know, you’re going to you know that they’re going to be thrilled. Because it you know, it’s an opportunity for them to attract more customers. And obviously, hopefully, they’ll share that with their, their own social followers. So it’s a great opportunity to to help out those small businesses. And I I also say once those stimulus checks come in, please use them in your local local businesses, please spend some of that money on the places you like the best so that they can stick around because it’s tough for a lot of places right now. So,

Joel Schaub 21:41
DJ, I’m so glad you said that, because that’s exactly what’s going on. People need it more than anything. Okay. I teased this earlier in the broadcast, but I wanted to come up with the two things that I really think are actually moving forward here. Okay, so the first one, and this is letting people know the sky isn’t falling in real estate. So the first one is, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have reduced a lot of the guidelines to get deals done right now. So instead of putting the the reins on these things, one of the big things that they’re allowing for is a much easier appraisal process. Okay. So what we’re seeing right now on purchases, is that the appraisers no longer need to physically enter the property. Okay, let me say that, again, if you have a listing, and you haven’t been contacted by the appraiser, the appraisal might already be done. Right. So last week, the head of the NBA met with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and they’ve issued new guidance, as far as the ability to have desktop appraisals. Okay. So that means that they can use the photos that are directly in the MLS, drive by and make sure the property isn’t on fire or gone, or just an empty lot. And they’re using the Contract Purchase price. So if you got a seller willing to sell it for this, and a buyer willing to buy it for that, they’ve been told, let’s not go out of our way to try to appraise things low. So we’re seeing a lot of two and three day turnaround on appraisals, instead of taking seven to 10 days. So that’s shortening the time deals done. So that’s one of the things I think we’re gonna see going forward as well, is we got away from this a lot. After the 2008 2009 we had to have that guy go out, get in the house and take his tape measure, measure every damn room. You don’t need all that. You just don’t. Okay, you can make common central lending decisions at a big time level without having to physically have that gentleman go through the entire house and take every single picture. There’s so much data. Okay, so we’re getting back to some common sense there. Now we’re not going to start over appraising things, and we’re not going to get away we’re not going to go back to no appraisals, but we’re going to have a lot more common sense going forward. And it’s going to help you as an agent not have so many deals where the appraisal comes in low that’s just the worst Okay, yep. And then to the ability right now for a lot of counties to go fully digital and closings is coming. Okay. Wouldn’t that help if you just couldn’t you don’t have to sit at a title company for two hours the day of closing

D.J. Paris 24:16
it’s almost amazing that in 2020 It hasn’t been this way for 10 years already right like this. This is the future is yesterday but at least it’s at least it’s finally about here Yeah, it’s it’s funny I now I think there’s so many businesses that are now seeing they can do things virtually and so thankfully, the title companies are you know, are catching up and will I guess it very exciting just makes everyone’s life a lot easier.

Joel Schaub 24:45
As an agent you should go to the closing right and but for the longest time agents have gotten away from because they’re so busy, they got other things to do. And they don’t want to be the one sitting there for two hours. But now the ability to do flash closing on a lot of these transactions being Right now we already have the ability to sign 95% of the docs electronically and only go to the title company to sign the six or seven wet signatures that are needed per county. Right now we’re getting close to the point where a lot of counties are allowing full electronic closing packages. And I think it’s going to just ease the process. And it’s, it’s funny that in today’s digital world, you wire the money to the closing you sign packages electronically, you still need to go and squiggled something on a piece of paper. I mean, so we’re getting there, there’s the ability to do all the refinance closings just like this, you enter a room, you show your ID, you digitally sign and making clothes a full refinance from start to finish with no human contact. Okay, that’s it. So we’re getting there on the purchase side of things. And so I just want to get to end with stay strong. Okay, the market isn’t falling, I think we’re gonna see a surge once we get out of this of buyers of pent up demand to come out because rates are going to stay low, the feds have said so. And so just take a deep breath, be safe. And just know that there’s a lot of people around you that care about you.

D.J. Paris 26:13
And reach out to the people you care about. And not just your sphere of influence and contacts, but certainly certainly them. But reach out, now’s the time to deepen relationships across the board. So you know, think back to your friends and family. And now you can start to develop those habits of staying, staying in touch. I know, I know, there’s more people I’m reaching out to these days, just to check in and, and but yeah, so stay in touch, stay connected. By the way for everyone who’s listening for anyone who is listening. And by the way, I should mention before I say this, that we at the firm I met, we have over 600 Realtors here, and the only lender we recommend is Joel. And obviously we get called by every lender, every loan officer would love to be that person. But we literally have this relationship because we just feel that Joel is the best that we’ve seen. I have personally worked with him as well. And everyone I’ve sent to him and said the same thing. So for everyone who’s listening, if you don’t have a great relationship with with a lender, or you’re looking to see what other options exist, we will always tell you to to call Joel and Joel slogan is just call Joel. And we actually think that makes perfect sense because he’s obviously fantastic. But to Joel, what’s the best way anyone? And by the way, you could be an agent out there looking to partner with a lender for for some opportunities, marketing wise. Also, for anyone who’s out there who may be interested in working with you directly. As a borrower, what’s the or refinance? What’s the best way somebody should reach out?

Joel Schaub 27:40
Well, it’s all about building that relationship. And so I just always start with an email and just introduce yourself. I’ve done this several times on the show, and I’ve gotten to meet so many agents from all across the United States. They say, I’ve heard you on the keepin it real podcast, here’s what I do, I’ve actually set up relationships out of state right now to help people on open houses and doing broker opens and helping their clients because we’re in all 50 states and give part of our commission back. So on most transactions, I can give a $1,500 closing cost credit to help offset the buyers costs. And if you’re an agent out there, just looking for a fresh start here and want to work with somebody else here, just feel free to reach out. My email is Joel JOE l@rate.com. So it’s joel@rate.com. And you can always reach me 773-654-2049 I’m still answering. So give me a ring, we can start to build a relationship. I like to know the people that are out there and what they’re doing. And as you can see, it’s about providing value, we’re here to help grow. That’s how I’m doing over $100 million a year of transactions. It’s not because we don’t know what we’re doing. It’s because we’re really truly trying to help you grow your business to the next level. Yeah,

D.J. Paris 28:57
that just makes all the sense in the world and is so smart. And you’ve been doing this for gosh 17 years or so now and it’s remarkable. Here in the local Chicago community everybody already knows Joel so if you’re listening from outside of this area, or again if you’re here and just looking to work with Joel obviously reach out but anywhere any state any one of our listeners can reach out and Joel will hopefully be able to help you so definitely give him a shoot him an email or give him a call. And we just have one quick favor to ask of all of our listeners before I sign off, which is to please follow well two things please. Two favors rather. I just doubled the number of favors I’m going to ask for but the first one is simple, please follow us on Facebook you can find us@facebook.com forward slash keeping it real pod we as we’re recording these episodes, we post them live on Facebook and kind of watch a little behind the scenes as we’re recording. But also we every single day find an article online designed to help you grow your business and we post it and we also post silly questions of the day and things like that but it’s a good way we try to put a lot of energy into it to give you value. And then the second thing is to please tell a friend, think of just one other agent, one realtor, one broker out there that could benefit from listening to Joel and all the other great guests we have, and please share this podcast, you can send them to our website, which is keeping it real pod.com Or just, you know, tell them to look it up on iTunes or Spotify or wherever they’re finding podcasts. But anyway, on behalf of Joel and myself to the listeners, we say thank you for continuing to listen and support our show. And Joel on behalf of the listeners and myself, of course, we thank you for your continued contribution. I’m so grateful to have you on here every month, and excited to see how busy you are and your success continues to grow. So thanks again and we’ll see you next time. Stay safe everybody.

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