Welcome to our monthly feature, Close-ing Time – in partnership with TheClose.com.
Chris Linsell from TheClose.com and D.J. discuss the importance of empathic communication – discussing the layoffs at better.com and the importance of working with lenders you trust. Chris reveals real estate statistics based on surveys conducted by The Close during 2021. They also talk about doing a “tech audit” to make sure the tools you’re using are still the best for your business. Last, Chris talks about what The Close Pro offers.
If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube!
Chris Linsell can be reached at chris@theclose.com.
Transcript
D.J. Paris 0:00
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Welcome, keeping it real, the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Paris. I am your guide and host through the show and today is our monthly series called closing time with Chris Lindh sell from the close. Now this is a partnership between keeping it real and the closed.com Let me tell you about the clothes the clothes.com is the kind of real estate website designed to give agents, teams and brokerages actionable strategic insight from industry professionals. They cover real estate marketing, lead generation technology, and team building strategies from the perspective of working agents and brokers who want to take their business to the next level, please visit the closed.com That’s th e c l o s e.com And subscribe to their newsletters so you can get notified every time they publish an article now with us as always is crystallin Sal, he is a staff writer and real estate coach for the close. Chris is the closes resident expert on real estate topics ranging from marketing lead gen transactional best practices and everything in between. He’s a licensed agent in the state of Michigan. Chris has been part of hundreds of transactions from modest rural starter homes to massive waterside compounds. When he isn’t writing, you’ll find Chris fly fishing or performing on the stages of his community theaters production local community theaters production. I Chris, welcome once again. It is December. We are excited to have you close out the rest of the year. And welcome to the show. Hey, thanks
Chris Linsell 2:15
for having me. DJ. Great to be back. Yeah, it has been a crazy month, a crazy year. Good to be here. Glad to talk to you. And frankly, there’s there’s a lot going on right now. So we got some stuff to talk about here,
D.J. Paris 2:28
my friend. We do. And I apologize to anyone if my voice is a little shaky. I’m working on working on a cold and also living with a COVID Positive partner who I am trying to stay six feet away from so I do not infect myself or she doesn’t infect me. But I hope everyone out there before we get started is enjoying the holidays. Please remember to get your booster shots and be safe. Yeah, so let’s talk about the big sort of national news that happened on the lending side recently, which was better.com, which I had not heard of that company prior to the news that most of our listeners probably have been exposed to, which was there was mass layoff. That happened I think 900 employees were laid off from better.com, which is a an online lending institution, and they were laid off in unceremoniously sort of ethical way, I guess it’s not gonna be the best way to say,
Chris Linsell 3:36
Yeah, I think unceremonious is like, I think that’s putting it pretty politely frankly. You haven’t seen it there. There is definitely some crazy video on the internet. And it won’t take much just go you know, head to Google and type in better.com layoffs. And you’re gonna get hit with a lot of video that you know, actually first went viral on Tiktok of some some layoffs that happened. And here’s the here’s the thing, actually, I want to just kind of back up and say I’ve got stuff to say about this relative to the mortgage and lending industry and the real estate industry as a whole. But this is like a people problem. That doesn’t matter what industry you’re in. You know, you’re the leader of your organization is tasked with making sure you’ve got the right team in place to execute on the company’s goals and the reality is sometimes that means that you got to lay people off you got to fire people, you got to hire people you got to bring people on. So it’s it’s a leaders task to make sure that’s done effectively. This really was a swing and a miss as far as that effectiveness elements. So a separate from the real estate and lending components here. Let’s just call a spade a spade here. This was a Human Resources debacle on the highest level, I think.
D.J. Paris 5:04
So essentially what happened is they laid off 900 people simultaneously and about a three minute Zoom meeting that the people who were being fired or laid off, I’m not sure if which one it was, but were unaware. So they thought they were attending a regular meeting. And they were notified just before the holidays. So bad timing, bad presentation, or bad execution. And everyone got notified at the same time within about a three minute period. And then they were subsequently locked out of their emails. And I think there’s a couple of points that we could we could talk about outside of the outrageous pneus of firing somebody via zoom, or firing 900 people via zoom simultaneously, which I think we could all we all would sort of appropriately shutter at and maybe sneer at somebody who would consider doing that. But aside from saying, What a bad what a bad guy, for the person who was the CEO. Aside from that, I think that the conversation Could it really could lend now to talk about culture? And how do we, how do we bring people into our organization? What is our culture? Like, once somebody is part of the organization? How do we exit? How do we move people out of the organization? How do we do that in a way that respects someone’s dignity? And is that is that even important? Or is this guy a genius in the sense that he efficiently let go of 900 people all at once my, you know, I don’t believe that, that that was an appropriate way to do that. Maybe there would be some efficiency experts that that would disagree, but seems like just from a human being perspective, and just being a good citizen of the world, that that was probably not the best way to achieve that unfortunate outcome.
Chris Linsell 7:13
Yeah, I think I think you’re right in that in. And I think this points out a couple of interesting things to me. And I want to just go back, because for those of you who don’t know, I enjoy watching movies and television. I’m a little I wouldn’t call myself a cinephile. But I certainly have. I’ve seen my fair share of movies. And I am reminded right in this moment, of the Michael Lewis adaptation movie, The Big Short. And, and one of the things that is, if you haven’t seen this movie, spoiler alert, we had a housing crash in 2009. So if you hadn’t seen it, I just ruined it for you. So sorry about that. But one of the things, one of the reasons why Michael Lewis’s first was brilliant book, if you haven’t read it, and then the movie, the adaptation, one of the reasons why this plot was so compelling to people was that real estate, and specifically, both both real estate and the financing for residential real estate, were thought to be these rock solid businesses with extraordinarily low volatility. And this is both when it comes to the movement of the markets themselves, as well as kind of the health and well being of the companies that operate within that space. And so, you know, 25 years ago, it would have been a real shock, I mean, practically unheard of, for a company within the, like the mortgage space to lay off 900 people all at once, unless there was some sort of insane scandal or something that had happened with their, the industry is just too stable for that to happen. And I think it’s worth pointing out the difference between 2000 to, you know, 1999 1998, and today and 2021, relative to the volatility that we see both in markets and within companies, because we are seeing more players pop up in both real estate brokerage and, you know, kind of sales operation side, as well as the FinTech like the the financing end of things. We’re seeing more companies pop up faster, get acquired, get dissolved, then than we ever have had in our industry. And it really demonstrates the difference that we have right now as far as a climate for the developer. have meant, and ultimately, in some cases, the dissolution of some of these players, and it’s kind of turned in some of the what we think of this industry a bit on its head right now.
D.J. Paris 10:13
Yeah, I think it’s important for our listeners to start to really be, you know, in the know of what’s going on with your preferred lenders, for example, yeah, so if you are working with a particular lending institution that you tend to send your your buyers to, this would be a great time to just have a quick conversation with that ello, to discuss, Hey, how are things going at the company? You know, I would assume, and again, I am not an economist or a real estate journalist, but I would assume that we will see some layoffs from lending institutions in the next 24 months, strictly based on the fact that rates were at near historic lows, and, you know, rates are going to eventually bounce back, they are starting to climb back up. And, you know, just like any other type of business when they need to scale to take advantage of a tactical situation, which is low interest rate environment, where now people can refinance, they can purchase more. And then as the Fed starts to bump those rates up, we’re going to see less people, less homeowners maybe refinancing and buying. If that happens, then some of these institutions are going to be laying off some of their work the workforce, and as a result, what the agent needs to know is how is that going to affect workflow? Is that, you know, what, what is our, you know, from contract to close? What are we seeing out there right now, and I think now is a great time to partner with a lending institution that is, you know, to whatever degree, we call stable, find those bedrock companies, because those are the ones that are going to get your clients through, you know, through the contract. Yeah, I
Chris Linsell 12:05
completely agree. In fact, I want to even take it a step further. And just, actually, before I say this, I just want to say full disclosure, I don’t have any, you know, bought in loyalty to any of these, you know, bedrock, financial institutions. But frankly, in the moment, it might be a good idea to have relationships with the, you know, the mortgage broker, the loan officers, you know, at Chase at Bank of America, at Wells Fargo at these places where it would take really an asteroid crashing into the city of New York, City of New York or Chicago to wipe one of these banks off the map. That’s that’s not going to happen. But frankly, there are a number of mortgage options out there. And I can attest to this personally, because I spent both, you know, I spent time both in Atlantic City at triple play. And in San Diego at Norwalk walking the expo, there are tons of mortgage brokers out there, right now, mortgage companies that are offering a lot of flash and dash to try and get real estate agents plugged into their system. And the the long and the short of it is there were people at I’m confident there were people that were working in support of the efforts of better.com, and their booth at the National Association of Realtors Conference that are no longer at that company. And so if you’ve got a loan that needs to go through, you might not be working with the same person, you might have a different process than you did before. So it’s time to shore up your options. And make sure that your process as a real estate agent or broker has your clients smooth transition from one end to the other front and center. Because right now is it’s you know, it’s a good time to re re evaluating those things anyway, but especially when there’s volatility in the space, it’s a double good time to make sure you’ve got some backup.
D.J. Paris 14:11
Yeah, I would love to also talk about some of the stats that you’ve seen recently. With respect to we’re now towards the we’re at the very end of the year 2021. We have agents who are now reevaluating where they want to be. We were just talking about evaluating some of your partners including loan officers, but also your own agency. You know, are you happy at your current firm? Are you exploring other options to someone else down the street, have a brokerage with a better split, more training, more leads, more support more tools? This is the time of year which as somebody who this is my job is essentially to recruit realtors, this is the time of year that is busiest for or not just the holiday season activities, but also for agents looking to say, where do I want to hang my hat? You know, 2022? And, of course, we know there are lots of options, even in even in rural areas, there’s lots of opportunities. So could you tell us a little bit about what you’re seeing out there?
Chris Linsell 15:20
Absolutely. So I’ll say two things. One, the close has a running all the time, we’ve got some quizzes and some surveys that people can take on different articles that give us some insights into the mindset of readers of particular content. And we’ve got a little survey on our article about the choosing the right real estate brokerage or company to work for. And in that survey, we’ve got a couple of questions that are pretty telling. Just to give a little context, in so far in the year 2021. We’re recording this on December 20. So nearly the end of the year, we’ve had over 10,000 people complete this survey. And we asked him basically, we asked him a few questions, but the two that really matter here are Why are you looking for a new brokerage? And what are the values that you are most looking for in a new brokerage? So why are you considering leaving? And what are you looking for basically? And here’s a couple of interesting things. When asked people when we’re asking people, why are you considering leaving? Less than 3%? less than 3% of people responded, saying I’m dissatisfied with my brokerages brand in less than 3%, I want
D.J. Paris 16:55
to I want to just take that job. So it’s less than three. So that’s interesting to me, I wouldn’t have guessed the hat, right. Because the branding, which largely is a visual component, which I would, I would have thought that would have been a much higher number. So that’s good to know, interest. Yeah.
Chris Linsell 17:16
So I would have thought it would be a little bit higher, too. But then, you know, I started talking to some agents about it. And I came to an interesting conclusion, which is, for most agents, especially middle of the road to high performing agents, their brand is their name, it’s the writer on top of the sign more than it is the placard of the sign itself. So whether or not they’re dropping their name writer on top of a century 21 Or a Coldwell Banker or a compass. That doesn’t matter as much to them because their brand is in their name. So that to me, tells me two things. The first is if you’re a real estate broker, you should not be dropping a million dollars or a managing broker, you should not be dropping millions of dollars into your company branding, you should be setting up company branding that then facilitates and accelerates your agents, individual Brandon, because that’s where the money is for them. So that’s the first interesting tidbit. The second interesting tidbit was and this one is fascinating to me. less than 15% of people who said they were considering a new brokerage, less than 15% of these people said it was because they were dissatisfied with their brokerages, commission structures. So that is very surprising. I thought so too.
D.J. Paris 18:41
So, so. So now we’ve we’ve basically, we’ve removed the the, the opposite, what we’ve done is we’ve removed two things, we’ve removed the branding, and we’ve also removed compensation. So what has been more important than
Chris Linsell 19:03
so the things that were most important to people, in fact, overwhelming nearly 84% of people chose either that they wanted better company culture or they wanted more growth opportunities within within their company to grow as a leader to be mentored and to gain better skills and have better professional development. It’s so clear that people were leaving brokerages are considering leaving brokerages. In fact, nearly I mean more than eight out of 10 people were considering this move because they didn’t feel like they had a place in the company. They didn’t feel like they had a valued spot. And I tell you what, I’ve been working as a remote worker for many years now. priek many, much before COVID hit. I was working at home and honestly, I at the close I feel like an incredibly valued member of my team, and I see these people in person. During non COVID years, I see these people in person like maybe three times, four times a year at the most. And I have a, I have a place within the company, I’m a place within the team, your agents and brokers can have a place within your team as well. And if they don’t feel like that, if they feel isolated, that they feel like they’re on an island, like they have no path to grow and get better, they’re going to look for somewhere else to be.
D.J. Paris 20:30
Yeah, I think that’s really important. Retention is really what we’re talking about. And and I think that when we we know that, thankfully that the commission is so for everyone listening who may be thinking, well, there’s a better commission split out there. Yes, there is. Of course, there is there’s there are firms that will pay you more, though firms will pay less. What i It seems to not be the deciding the majority deciding factor. But this idea of being appreciated or being having opportunity, I think is really, really critical and really speaks to what I think is the brokerages job, which is to not only provide all the tools, the skills, the training and the support that an agent needs, so that they can build the business that they want. But then also to make sure that that agent is appreciated in the way that they recognize appreciation. And so, you know, it’s it goes back to like being in a relationship with somebody, we probably all of our listeners have heard of love languages, which is, you know, there’s various ways in which we experience love. And most of us have a predominant modality or predominant way that we like to experience love, it might be verbal praise, it might be acts of service, it might be physical touch, might be gifts. And what I would encourage all of us to do, who are listening to this, this episode, whether you’re a brokerage owner, or whether you’re just a broker, and you can apply the same principle to your clients, would be to really think about how do the people that you value whether they’re your your, if your manager, your brokers, or your agents, or if it’s your clients? How do you recognize them? How do you acknowledge them, and you know, make sure that they feel appreciated, whether they’re your client, or they’re your co worker, I think that is, is a huge opportunity for broker just to retain, and each person has their own unique style. So you almost have to, in our opinion, in my opinion, create, you know, sort of a CRM of sorts of here’s, you know, here’s what my, the, for example, we have almost 800 Realtors at our company, we have a list of all of course of all those realtors, and what we know about them and how they like to be rewarded and appreciated. And even though with our company where we pay very high commission splits, that is not usually the most important thing to any of those agents have a few of them it is but for the vast majority of them, they really appreciate when when we call them and congratulate them. So I think this is a great opportunity for for anyone listening to realize that you get to now have a deeper emotional connection with your co workers or your clients by understanding what makes them tick. And then serving them up that love language that best suits them.
Chris Linsell 23:42
Yeah. So this is some next level podcast hosted and frankly, that you tie this back to Gary Chapman’s book about love languages. Yeah, this is like so onpoint. So if you haven’t read it, it’s called The Five Love Languages by a guy named Gary Chapman. And in fact, I’m gonna give you two book reports. As we got the holidays coming up guys got plenty of time to read, you should read Gary Chapman’s original, The Five Love Languages, because this is like an invaluable book about personal relationships. But there’s also a new edition called the five languages of appreciation in the workplace that is geared specifically towards business. And guys, if you are if you own a brokerage or a managing broker, or if you’re just an agent or broker working with your clients, I’m telling you this, it’s like it’s those moments where like you read something or you hear something to say how did I not think of this? This is the sort of the sort of kind of Next Level analysis of those of those relationship specific businesses like real estate that I’m telling you, it’s gonna mean a lot to you. So check it out Gary Chapman, five love languages and the five languages of appreciation in the workplace. And it does it ties back into the second question that we’re asking people on the survey which is, what are the most important things that you’re Looking for in your new brokerage. And again, an overwhelming percent here guys like it was 40 49% of people wanted strong industry leadership and company culture. And then training and professional development was 30% of that. So between strong leadership, company culture, and training and professional development, we’re making up nearly 80% of of the of the total first priorities for people. So again, think about, if you’re an agent, you know, think about where are your buckets being filled. I’m not trying to borrow too much from Gary Chapman here. But if you read the second book here, you will talk about, you know, we all have these professional buckets that need to get filled. And you may be looking for for appreciation, and encouragement and engagement in your workplace. Are you getting your bucket filled? And if you are managing broker, are you filling the buckets of your agents, because frankly, tying it back together with better.com, what was totally lacking in the better.com layoff fiasco, was a connection between the needs of the employees who, frankly, it wasn’t a bad business move to lay these people off. I’m not trying to be cold hearted here. But the company needed to position itself with a balance sheet that had less liabilities. In order to achieve their goals. It sucks, because these are people involved. This is not just numbers on a spreadsheet, these are human beings who have Christmas shopping to do and mortgages to pay, and medical bills. And I recognize all of that, but you can’t fault a business for also being thoughtful about making sure it’s a self sustaining entity. But what this guy did totally wrong was disconnect with the people and their needs in the way that this message was communicated. And this just harkens back to the value of the companies that we work with and for connecting with our needs, both as professionals and as consumers. So you should expect more from your brokerage. And honestly, your clients should expect more from you. So make yourself better, and do so by also making your brokerage better, it really is a win win for everybody.
D.J. Paris 27:36
It is a win win. And it’s nice to know for those who are listening, who have team members, who may be you, you’re listening, and you run a team, and you’re worried that your top producer is going to leave and go off on their own, or maybe switch brokerages or you know, create their own team or, you know, in, you know, of course, all of those things can always happen. But the data in Chris’s data that he shared with us earlier, is very consistent with other data that I’ve seen over the years, which has to do with people typically leave because they feel unappreciated. People typically will leave a brokerage because they know they’re not getting what they need. Do you know what your brokers need? Does your manager know what you need? Right? If you’re an agent, now’s a great time to have those conversations. And, you know, hold the manager, if you’re an agent, hold your managers feet to the fire and say, here’s what I would like to do. And 2022 Here are the skills I need to develop. Here are the tools I might need here are the resources that would be helpful. can you assist me with this? Because sure, somebody down the street might be able to give you a better commission split. But that’s really what you want is you want your needs met. And if your need is that you need a higher commission split, well, there you go. But if you need professional development, if you need, you know, additional leadership, you know, or you need better business planning or skill development, this is the time to go to your manager and say, hey, I want to crank this thing up and 2022 What can you what can we do together to help me get there? That is their job and for managers listening that is your job. And it is my job here at my company to make sure that all of the agents we have go hey, why would I ever leave? These guys take wonderful care of me and they appreciate me and you know, they’re they’re giving me what I need. But the only way that that happens is through communication. Everybody is so unique and different. Please do not be afraid to go to your manager and say I want to work on my business plan with you. Can you spare some time with me to chart a path For us in 2022? And if they sort of give you the Yeah, yeah, well, you know, look, there’s there’s no, I would encourage you to to consider other options, right. I mean, there’s other firms out there that are that we would love to help you with that
Chris Linsell 30:16
100% 100%. One of the things that, for better or worse, we are, there is a reality in our market right now is choice, at least from a professional like, where do you hang your license? Who do you work with, as far as vendors, there’s a lot of competition in that space right now. So you can make choices. But frankly, the kind of the start and end of this conversation, for me, as far as choices go, is whatever choices you’re make, you’re making, make sure that those are being made in pursuit of providing the best experience possible for your clients. So if you are making choices between brokerages, which one is going to give you the tools you need in order to level up your client experience. Because at the end of the day, your clients certainly deserve that. And you’re going to make more money and be more successful. If you are positioning yourself to build a business around creating the best experience possible for your clients. If you were putting other things first, you might zoom out ahead, temporarily, but honestly, you’re that’s that is that is a temporary win relative to the agents and brokers who are positioning their clients best interests and a superior experience first. So you know, as you’re going into 2020, to think to yourself, you know, what am I doing every day, every week, every month, every quarter, to level up my clients experience within the real estate space. And if you are not being provided with the tools, and the training, and the opportunity to get that done, might be time to make a change, whether that’s in a brokerage, or whether that’s with a lender, or an inspector or an appraiser or whoever it is. If you right now you’ve got some choices. So it’s it’s a good time to make them. And also
D.J. Paris 32:07
a great time to evaluate or technology partners as well. So if you have services that you’re using signature platform CRMs website, front ends, this is a great time to you know, as things slow down to evaluate, reevaluate, are you getting what you need are your tools in alignment with your goals. And you know, there thankfully, there are a lot of partners out there that would love to get your business and will compete for that business. So wow, what a what a great conversation, Chris. I’m really, I was really enjoyed. I enjoyed hearing some of those statistics, because it was nice to hear that the human element is ultimately sort of the trump card in I guess, maybe I shouldn’t use the word Trump anymore. That’s got a minute. For a lot of us a negative connotation. But but sort of that, that, you know, that high ace, I guess, is the human connection. And if you can just continue to connect with your clients, with your co workers, with your team members, checking in with them, how are you doing? What’s going on, all of that really helps with retention, and keeping everyone you know, front of mind. But now, now’s the time, you know, if we’re now in the last, you know, 10 days or so of the month, if you haven’t already reached out to all of your customers, your clients, your colleagues, wishing them a happy holiday season, wishing them a happy new year. That’s the easiest way that you can do what you can do right now just to you know, make them feel appreciated and supported. But yeah, this is the time to really evaluate, what are you getting? What are you giving? And what are you going to do in 2022?
Chris Linsell 33:57
That’s the truth. That’s the truth in 2022. Honestly, it’s not going to be a calm and quiet year. It is going to be volatile, and crazy, and exciting, and heartbreaking and victorious. I’m sure we’re gonna have elements of all of that. So I can’t wait to keep talking through with you. There’s going to be a lot on the horizon this year. I have a feeling.
D.J. Paris 34:19
I agree. Tell us a little bit about the close pro before we wrap up.
Chris Linsell 34:22
Yeah. So if you are looking for a way to level up your real estate business, first and foremost, check out the clubs.com 99% of what we have there is totally free. You don’t even need an email address. Just come read about how you can make your business better. And we’ve got everything from long form strategy guides like real estate farming, or creating a better CMA or choosing a paid lead generation provider. All the way to fun stuff like real estate memes and the best real estate jokes your clients haven’t heard. I mean everything that you need To get a better real estate business we’ve got on the close. And if you want to go to the next level, you can join us on the clothes pro the clothes Pro is our premium subscription based service. It is where you can get exclusive courses taught by myself and other close pro instructors. Things like six simple systems to transform your real estate business, Facebook and Instagram Crash Course for agents or for low cost hidden listing Goldmine sources, these are all courses in just a few of what we offer on the close Pro, we also offer an extensive resource library and boot camps, a boot camp collection full of things like you know, dozens of scripts and templates, and all the different pieces components that you need to build a successful real estate strategy. Close Pro is 35 bucks a month, or you can get it for $199. For the year, we’ve got a lot of cool stuff that I can’t even I mean, just kind of scratching the surface here. But this is really, if you want to go beyond googling your answer and get an authoritative source with with resources, the sorts of resources that your brokerage should provide. But isn’t the closed pros a great option for that. So come check us out. The clothes.com is our website, you can find the clothes pro there, and come check out what we can do for your business because we’re helping a lot of folks and we’d love to help you too.
D.J. Paris 36:33
We love the clothes.com everyone who is listening or watching please go visit the clothes.com it should be your primary source for marketing journalism. I guess, I don’t know if that’s an actual term. But it’s where I go for all of my good ideas for this business. So the clothes.com th e c l o s e.com. Sign up for the clothes Pro, give it a shot 35 bucks a month. Absolutely reasonable. And before you do that, you can read almost everything they have for free, as well. Chris, on behalf of the listeners, as always, we thank you for closing out another year with us. 2021 has been a or 20. Yeah, 2021 has been a crazy year. But it’s been a very interesting year. And I hope in 2022 We’ll have even more to talk about. And we’re also going to be expanding this show as well. So be on the lookout for for all of our listeners for some some big news are very excited to to be releasing shortly. And on behalf of Chris and myself want to thank the listeners and the audience, the viewers for continuing to support our show, please tell a friend think of one other agent that you know that could benefit from hearing this great conversation that we just had with Chris and send them a link to our website the best way you can reach us send them right over to keeping it real pod.com Or over to our Facebook page which is facebook.com forward slash keeping it real pod every episode we’ve ever done is all on Facebook as well as on our website or just pull up a podcast app search for keeping it real. Hit that subscribe button. Alright Chris. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. We will see you in 2022
Chris Linsell 38:18
Can’t wait. Let’s get back into it and have a good one everybody. Thanks
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