Short answer: There is no single number, because every lead source converts differently. The ratios top producers have shared on Keeping It Real with D.J. Paris run from about 2 in 100 (Greg Pekarsky’s closing ratio on calls) to about 5 in 100 for agents who are good with internet leads (Caroline Hobbs). Zach Geisendorfer’s phone math was 400 dials to book 15 appointments, 6 of which showed up, and 2 of which closed. Your own ratio comes from counting dials, conversations, appointments and closings for 90 days, one lead source at a time.
By D.J. Paris, host of Keeping It Real with D.J. Paris. Updated November 2026.
What does the math from dials to deals look like?
Every prospecting funnel has the same stages. The names change by lead source, but the steps don’t:
- Attempts: dials, doors knocked, texts sent.
- Conversations: a real two-way talk with a person. Voicemails don’t count here.
- Appointments set, then appointments held. These are two different numbers. Plenty of people don’t show.
- Signed clients: a listing agreement or a buyer agreement.
- Contracts, then closings. Some contracts die before closing.
The cleanest example we’ve heard came from Zach Geisendorfer, sales manager and partner at Fam Realty Group, an eXp Realty team in Southern California. Before real estate he sold leads to agents by phone at a company called SetSchedule, making about 400 hand dials a day. He knew his funnel cold:
“And my goal was out of 400 dials. If I could get like 15 appointments for the next day, then we’re in a good spot. You know, and that was my goal is about, if I do 15 presentations booked, I knew my math. I knew I’d have about six that would show up for that day.”
Zach Geisendorfer, How To Have Mega Open Houses (April 2025, at 13:34)
Of those six presentations, he said he’d close two. Then he summed it up: “So it was just simple math.” Four hundred dials, 15 booked, 6 held, 2 sales. That’s what knowing your ratio looks like. When he moved into real estate as an ISA, he set a goal of 100,000 outbound calls a year to homeowners (at 11:21).
What conversion ratios do top agents actually report?
Here are the numbers guests have stated on the show. Each one is a single agent’s experience with a specific kind of business, not an industry benchmark.
| Guest | Stage | Ratio they shared | Where |
|---|---|---|---|
| Zach Geisendorfer | Dials to appointments to sales (phone sales, before real estate) | 400 dials, 15 booked, 6 held, 2 closed | April 2025, 13:34 |
| Greg Pekarsky | Calls to a yes | Works from a 2% closing ratio; says you may “call 98 people to get one yes” | January 2025, 17:26 |
| Caroline Hobbs | Internet leads to sales | About 5% if you’re good, 2 to 3% on the low side | September 2023, 40:26 |
| Mitch Ribak | Database contacts who buy or sell in a year | He plans on 7 out of 100 | October 2024, 14:34 |
| Ben Lalez | Contracts that fail to close | About 17% on his team, one in six | May 2026, 37:44 |
A warm database converts very differently from a cold list or a web lead, so someone else’s “calls per listing” number can’t run your business.
Why do most agents quit before the math works?
Because the math is mostly no. Greg Pekarsky leads Vesta Preferred in Chicago, which D.J. introduced as the number one independent team in Illinois. Greg put his own 2024 at $270 million closed and pending, about 540 homes (at 11:58). He told our seminar audience that his CRM tracks every call, text and email so he knows how each lead source behaves. For one source, he knows it takes about 30 calls before a lead picks up. That changes how a no feels:
“But when you’re talking about a 2% closing ratio, guys, you have to call 98 people to get one yes. People usually last 20 to 30 calls and they say, whatever, I’m not going to do this. And that is where everybody falls off.”
Greg Pekarsky, 290M in 2024: How An Agent Had His Best Year In A Down Market (January 2025, at 17:26)
His phrase for it: “Knowing your numbers is everything, guys.” If you know a lead takes 30 calls, call 12 isn’t a failure. It’s call 12.
Caroline Hobbs, broker and owner of Reward Realty in San Jose, California, drew the same conclusion from internet leads:
“for internet leads the average are you know you’ll typically sell maybe 5%… on a low side it’s like two to three percent so what that tells me is that I need to have more conversations in order to produce more transactions”
Caroline Hobbs, The Importance of Mentorship (September 2023, at 40:26)
Low conversion tells you how many more conversations you need.
How many calls a day should a real estate agent make?
Set the goal in conversations, not dials. Dials are an input you control. Conversations are the thing that turns into appointments. Josh Anderson, who leads the Anderson Group in Nashville and sold 23 or 24 homes his first year, built his business on a daily conversation number:
“But to get 20 contacts a day, which was my goal back in the day was 20 contacts a day, I needed to be on the phones. So I needed a time block that three hours of outbound phone calls every day. And it still works, so I still do it.”
Josh Anderson, Why 36 Is The Magic Number Of Touches (July 2023, at 23:15)
He blocks the same hours every morning, 8:30 to 11:30. What he likes about it is that it’s predictable: “If I make 20 contacts a day, I’m going to do a certain amount of deals every year, every month, every quarter” (at 18:25).
Twenty contacts a day was Josh’s number. Yours should come from your own backward math (below) and from your goal. Our guide on how top producers set annual goals and work back to daily activity walks through that part.
Does your database change the math?
Yes. Your sphere has a much better ratio than a cold list. Mitch Ribak, who runs a brokerage in Brevard County, Florida and sold 36 homes his first year, plans on about 7 of every 100 people in his contacts buying or selling in a given year (at 14:34). He uses 7 because, in his words, “I like to set expectations low.” By his math, a 2,000-person phone list is roughly 140 transactions a year, and the job is to be the agent those people think of.
Track that funnel separately from cold calling.
How many deals fall through after the contract?
Enough that you need a buffer. Ben Lalez, who leads a Chicago team at Compass doing more than $200 million a year, pulled about five years of his team’s transaction history to find out:
“And what we came to find was that about 17% of the deals that we put under contract would die… 17%. One out of six.”
Ben Lalez, Zillow vs. Compass & Creating Personalized AI Solutions (May 2026, at 37:44)
If you plan for 12 closings and write exactly 12 contracts, you’ll come up short. Use your own fallout rate once you have it. Until then, a team that tracks it closely lost about one in six.
How do you find your own conversion ratio?
Four steps.
Step 1: Count five numbers every day
Attempts, conversations, appointments set, appointments held, and signed clients. A spreadsheet works. So does a CRM, if you log every call. Tag each one with its lead source.
Step 2: Do it for 90 days
A week of numbers is noise. Ninety days gives you a ratio you can plan from.
Step 3: Divide each stage by the one before it
Conversations divided by attempts is your contact rate. Appointments divided by conversations is your set rate. Keep going down the funnel. Do it per lead source, because your sphere and your cold list will not match.
Step 4: Run it backward from your goal
The numbers below are an example to show the math, not a benchmark. Replace every rate with your own.
| Line | Example | Your number |
|---|---|---|
| Closings you want this year | 12 | |
| Contracts needed (example: 1 in 6 fall through) | 15 | |
| Signed clients needed (example: 2 of 3 reach contract) | 23 | |
| Appointments held (example: 1 in 2 sign) | 46 | |
| Conversations (example: 1 appointment per 10 conversations) | 460 a year, about 10 a week | |
| Attempts per conversation | Track it |
Ten conversations a week is about two a day. That is a number you can put on a calendar. Then check it every Monday, the same review we describe in how to write a real estate business plan that gets used. For the full list of numbers worth watching, see the metrics top producers track.
Frequently asked questions
How many calls does it take to get a listing?
It depends on who you’re calling. Guests on our show have described ratios from 2 in 100 on calls to much better odds inside a warm database. Track your own calls, conversations and appointments for 90 days and you’ll know your real number.
Should I set a goal for dials or for conversations?
Conversations. Dials are effort; conversations are what turn into appointments. Josh Anderson’s goal was 20 contacts a day, and he blocked three hours every morning to hit it.
What is a good conversion rate for internet leads?
Caroline Hobbs put it at about 5% for agents who are good at converting, and 2 to 3% on the low side. Her takeaway: low conversion means you need more conversations.
How many real estate deals fall through?
On Ben Lalez’s Chicago team, about 17% of contracts failed to close, or one in six, based on roughly five years of their own data. Track your own fallout rate and build it into your plan.
Why do agents give up on prospecting?
They quit before the math has time to work. Greg Pekarsky said most people last 20 to 30 calls, while at a 2% closing ratio he says you may have to call 98 people to get one yes.
How long does it take to know my conversion ratio?
About 90 days of daily tracking, split by lead source. Redo the math each quarter as your skills and your market change.
Listen to the full episodes
- How To Have Mega Open Houses, with Zach Geisendorfer
- 290M in 2024: How An Agent Had His Best Year In A Down Market, with Greg Pekarsky
- The Importance of Mentorship, with Caroline Hobbs
- Why 36 Is The Magic Number Of Touches, with Josh Anderson
- How To Convert Real Estate Leads Into Clients, with Mitch Ribak
- Zillow vs. Compass & Creating Personalized AI Solutions, with Ben Lalez
Keeping It Real with D.J. Paris is a podcast for real estate agents, with more than 790 episodes of interviews with top-producing agents, coaches and industry leaders. Here’s how to listen.